UK political future

@ana you are right. Saying they live in paradise wasn't the correct description. I should know better, and yes I do believe as well that karma does eventually catch up with them. I think what I'm more referring to is how people like for example Trump, live the life they have where karma only really catches up to them after 70 odd years. But during that 70 odd years they were living a comfortable life, getting mostly whatever they want, and treating people however they want. Admittedly, Trump is an exceptional case, but it still does seem unfair to me.

Posted by: @luminous

But during that 70 odd years they were living a comfortable life, getting mostly whatever they want, and treating people however they want.

Although people like the former guy have had material comforts and tend to get what they go after, are they comfortable inside?  I think it must be a type of living hell inside their heads, and that is why they are so grasping and hateful. They're looking for relief in all the wrong places. 

Hi @ana you raise some interesting points, and these are certainly things i have pondered on myself over the years.

Living a comfortable life materially sure is one thing, but as for getting away with treating people like garbage and abusing them physically and emotionally until later in life is where I find it hard to understand the whole karma system.

But let's use another example of a potential flaw in the karma system, like Rupert Murdoch for example, a billionaire who propagates hate and division through his media dominance for most of his life, causing long-lasting damage to our democracies and society, and has walked away from scandal after scandal, is currently 90 yrs old and karma still hasn't caught up with him. Maybe I'm wrong and it will soon, but even if it doesn't, and he leaves this world at some stage with all the damage left behind and has to pay his karma in the next life, would it still be fair if one of his son's inherited his empire and continued his legacy of media control and influence over politics ?

Is karma even real?

Maybe karma is just another flawed belief?

Maybe Earth is just one big orgy for learning where there is no right or wrong?

Maybe life is just a movie or story with each of us playing our part or role?

Maybe reality is more malleable than we think and we have the freedom to create who we want to be and experience?

Maybe even what I believe morally and politically is neither right or wrong as well?

This is where I question all the belief systems that we know.

We think that we can understand the order of things through the practice of these belief systems, but actually under examination they are all equally flawed in their own ways.

Perhaps one of the key ways to helping create peace and to love unconditionally is to deconstruct our beliefs? I know this is very hard to do (and this is something I am working on myself) because we are all conditioned to believe what we believe from from our culture, our education, our laws, our democracy, our religion and our own experiences. But maybe it is necessary for all of us to collectively deconstruct this to make real progress? Perhaps this deconstruction has already begun and this has been amplified even more from the pandemic and we are seeing the tussle between the old powers vs the new?

@ana @luminous

My sense is that karma is real, but it’s hard for us to know how fully the karmic reckoning is for these terrible people.  

The former guy has been experiencing fear, frustration and terrible anger leading up to the election and extending to the present time.  He has been humiliated by his loss, humiliated by the failure of his insurrection attempt, humiliated by the charges filed against the Trump Organization, and now he’s humiliated by the new books coming out and the Guardian story about the Russians holding kompromat over him.  Just because he puts on a show of bravado and hubris, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t been deeply wounded by his losses and legal jeopardy.  Plus, he’s going to be in even deeper financial trouble as the courts pursue the Trump Organization.  His house of cards is about to collapse.  Karma is coming for the former guy and we all get to watch.

As far as Rupert, geez, doesn’t he appear untouchable?  He’s caused so much damage to our democracy and there doesn’t appear any reckoning for him.  I don’t get it.  

@bluebelle

I have a mixture of belief. I've seen evidence of karma myself,  but as I said I have started to deconstruct certain beliefs I have because people like Murdoch and others continue to get away with things.

Ok, these people might be very unhappy and that might be a hell in itself (I'm not sure that it is for Murdoch) but that doesn't re-balance the long-lasting damage they have done and are still doing to millions of people.

Trump is reaping what he sowed, but like you said, people like Murdoch seem to get away with almost everything and seem untouchable.

Edit: I forgot to mention, @bluebelle you made my lights flicker when you replied to this thread. Take from that what you will lol. ? 

Some of the confusion over karma comes from a belief that the purpose of karma is punishment and/or reward.  Karma is neither. It is merely a tool for learning. Think of it as a mirror that reflects all the energy that we put out into the world back at us (with a bit of magnification to ensure we don't miss it).  If we put out low energy like fear, anger and hate, eventually, that energy will come back to us three fold, and in a similar fashion to how it was sent out.  However, if we send out love, joy and kindness, that beautiful energy comes back to us seven fold. In this way we learn through experience.  Some who are more sensitive (old souls perhaps) realize quickly what is happening and decide they don't want to put out that low energy into the world.  Others take longer and may never actually realize in this lifetime what's going on. Instead, they double down in the low energy "game" of tit for tat revenge, etc.  If a person doesn't learn the lesson in this life, then, yes, for the next life, the soul will plan to take the karma with them and arrange for the opportunities to learn the needed lessons. ❤️ 

@ana @luminous @bluebelle and everyone. I don't have any belief systems like a religion or karma etc.  Good people can have crap outcomes, bad people quite enjoy life, most of us live in the middle of ups and downs. Its life. We are, we be. Sometimes good sometimes bad. It does help to be Lucky though.

I know that sounds a bit flippant but its not meant to be.

Kind regards to all

Thanks for sharing that @frank, that is a great understanding of karma.

I think where I have veered off course with my understanding, is I have been reading material and beliefs that seem to focus on punishment and reward. It didn't help either that in many spiritual circles I have spoken to over the years they have shared similar beliefs. I guess that is one reason you might say, that it was important that I found this place - to help me further grow my spiritual understanding and experiences.

Thanks @matildagirl for your sharing your perspective. Beliefs are certainly a tough one aren't they? I have seen elements of truth in all the different belief systems but they can be flawed, and sometimes it's easy to focus on them too much for shaping our understanding and interpreting our experiences, when sometimes it's best to let some things simply be.

@luminous it also helps to be practical and have the Rule of Law so they can be brought to justice for their crimes, (but no death penalty) to have universal health care so people can be cared for when ill, good education for people to advance, child care and parental leave for families. Good governance, gun laws, and in Australia's case a belief in a fair go for everyone. That helps with the Luck.

Kind regards to all

@matildagirl we are very much of the same opinion - I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

I guess what's happened to me personally, is I have been losing my faith in society and democracy here in the UK. All the institutions we rely upon, to uphold justice, democracy, etc have been failing all over the world and definitely been showing signs of that in the UK.

The success of Biden winning the US Presidential election made me definitely believe again in the good in our institutions in the world upholding democratic justice and society learning from the mistakes of the past, and I hoped that the Biden effect would spread out into the world and certainly shape and change things politically in the UK for the better, but that hasn't happened yet, but maybe it will in time...I live in hope anyway.

@luminous as others have said above and you yourself seem to understand on some level, karma isn't about reward/punishment as we often think of it in Western societies.  We are conditioned by our culture to think that karma = justice (and in many Western cultures, that means immediate-if-not-sooner justice), but it isn't that.  Karma is simply the belief that, as @frank said, the energy we put out will eventually come back to us in some form, but that doesn't mean it will happen in the same lifetime.  Karma can stretch over hundreds of lifetimes and thousands of years.  Something that we also don't often consider is that the "evil" that we see someone perpetrating on someone else could actually be the energy that was aimed at them in another lifetime, and this is now their chance to return that same energy.  That may mean that the people we see being horrible to others are simply returning the energy that was directed at them in another lifetime, so their karma is now completed, or "paid", if you will.  We don't often think of it that way.

For example, if someone is an abuser in one lifetime, then that person will experience the abuse that they dished out, often (but not always) at the hands of the person they abused.  The one who was previously abused is now simply returning the energy that they received.  Now, some might think that means that karma is a never-ending cycle, but it isn't.  In my example here, the person abused previously is now returning that energy to the person who gave it to them, and the person who originally sent out that energy has now had that energy returned to them.  For those two people (in this extremely simplified and simplistic example), the karmic involvement is now completed.

Because not all souls incarnate in the same space-time, others who may also peripherally suffer from the actions of those abusers in this lifetime may be suffering as a result of things that they did to others in the past, and they have agreed upon entering this lifetime to allow the suffering they experience from a "third party", so to speak, to be vessel for the return of the energy they put out in other lifetimes in order to settle their own "karmic accounts"

Although it's hard to grasp and process for most of us, people like Murdoch, who are generally strongly disliked, are sometimes the bravest and most loving souls in that they have chosen to take on the role of the abuser of many in order to resolve karmic debts for many souls at once.  That's not an easy role to play on the stage of this planet.

Please understand that I'm not implying that Mr. Murdoch *is* actually doing this, but the possibility exists, and the fact that he has not encountered any real pushback may be a clue.

@tgraf66 thank you for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. 

What you talk about has been something I've read about before when I tried to understand my own past life regression - and certainly this idea of Murdoch and powerful people like him playing in some type of wider karmic lesson is something that is shared across a variety of different books. But I find it hard for me to reconcile and accept this is the reason (even though logically it makes a lot of sense) because it absolutely stinks that there is nothing that can be done about it until the lesson has passed. This is what I'm finding so hard in the UK with 11 years under Conservative governments, and in particular this government led by Boris Johnson. It is absolutely bonkers right in the UK lol. I was going to write a load of stuff about what is happening but I'm not going to, because it isn't worth my energy. I'm feeling pretty exhaused anyway because there is a little bit of a heatwave in the UK right now which nothing like the US or Canada, but is still exhausting.

Anyway, I found this cartoon picture which I thought was funny because it perfectly summed up Boris Johnson's chaotic policies throughout the pandemic:

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58586493.amp

?

@luminous  They must have needed all that hot air to keep their studios warm this winter.

@journeywithme2 ? ? LOL 

@luminous Hi, I Don't want him, another one of Rupert's sins.

@matildagirl I honestly don't know why Murdoch keeps doubling down on bringing in more media hacks to create more hateful division and dangerous disinformation. You only have to look at Sky Australia and Fox News facilitating in vaccine disinformation to see how dangerous it is. In the UK we are already dominated by Murdoch's empire, and he now wants to double down and create even more bias towards his right-wing leaning propaganda. The man seems unhappy unless he has created as much chaos as possible. I am also pretty sure he also doesn't believe a word of his own news, as he flew to the UK to jump the queue to get a vaccine earlier this year. 

@luminous

I guess because he can, he has the power and money, probably wants more and who knows what personal motives driving him.

@matildagirl yeah I know. I  also gotta stop talking about him otherwise the other members will get annoyed.

The UK situation has been pretty chaotic, but so has other places in the world. I try not to let the situation get to me, but it does get very pronounced with everything else that's been happening in my life lately. Hard to just ignore, but such is life.  

@luminous Maybe time for a bit of Eric Idle 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTXiqKGFNso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

Take care