AHCA Bill passing the House...

I see that the Senate Republicans think they have a clever plan that they can get through the Senate.  I see Obama not happy at the end of August which probably means there will be something passed. 

This maliciousness will be a foundation of the backlash against them. Meanwhile there are indictments and warrants coming.

Is it with regards to health care? Because I just saw THIS online:  https://www.truthexaminer.com/2017/05/jason-chaffetz-files-bill-to-cut-president-off-barack-obamas-presidential-pension/

That's right, Jason Chaffetz just filed a bill to take away Obama's pension!

The backlash against the Republicans will be extreme when it finally comes. The party will shrivel to a tiny fringe group.   It's a while off. But a time will come when people will hide the fact that they or their parents were Republicans. 

From: Zoron

Subject: Health Care Bill

Probability: 60%

Outcome: Red alert

Expansion:

The Health care Bill is of itself not central to what is going on in America, at the moment, although it is important. The scanning I am getting is that whatever is passed, (it will get modified) it will not be as it is, or what they want. But bad enough. The issue I am picking up is the long term causes of the Health scam bill, and the collapse of State funded health care systems, under financial pressure, and right wing political administrations. Not good. I see, later in this term, a real mess about health care, and  the poor and the disabled in America are going to suffer horribly. There are going to be real horror stories, of helpless poor people simply turned away from care, and the steady rise of preventable disease in poor areas. This will add to the general resentment and hostility in the American underclass, as is seen, for instance, in the "Black lives matter" campaign. It will fuse into a sort of general  feeling of being oppressed and dispossessed. More fuel added to the fire. The long term problems caused are going to be severe. Obama-Care, for all its faults, was an attempt to fix things. But eventually, by 2028, the medical system in America will resemble that of a South American banana republic. The rich have health care, the poor die. Unless, and until, there is a huge change in the American System, it will get steadily worse. 

Thank you Zoron. Is this going to be country wide, or will more liberal areas protect their residents. I have panic attacks and anxiety attacks about living in this country, and I'm completely trapped here. I'd like to know whether I should spend the next 3-4 years building enough financial strength to leave or whether I should settle in and stay put. I know this is personal and I'm sorry, I'm just unbelievably terrified, and it never seems to go away.

Natalie, it is going to be fairly bad, especially in the "Hate States" but some states will do the best they can to survive and keep things going. But without a federal scale health plan and legislation, it is going to be tough. I do so understand how you feel. we are going through a very bad situation here, with BREXIT, with the country horribly moving to the right. The election results, from yesterday, were awful. (its local municipal elections.) The right got a lot of power. Also, there is now a lot of official hostility to those who are resisting BREXIT. it is getting nasty. So I anticipate the same in America. It is polarisation. Best for you to get somewhere fairly liberal, like Minnesota, or Massachusetts. They will be easier to survive in, and have better health care. 

Long term, think in terms of seriously getting a small holding of land, in one of these states, and going off-grid. America in 10 years is going to be a tough place. Jeanne thinks that the great lakes states are a safe bet, and she is right. I do sympathise. 

Thank you so much Zoron. I really hope you are ok in Britain, I love that country. I live in Massachusetts and we were going to buy a house in the next 2 years. I always say that I want land and a garden and therefore won't buy in any city, but as a Canadian citizen I waffle between settling here and going home. My American husband doesn't see the urgency and so I'm trapped because I'd be leaving alone. Since childhood I had vivid images of living off the grid in new England, but until recently I'd never been to new England, so those childish visions have a weird resonance. Thank you again. 

Yeah, I'm curious about Delaware now. Southern county is very red, but it's considered a blue state. Not sure whether to move further north or not.

To: Zoron & Jeanne

Subject: Health Care & Safe Places to Live

Like Lora, I am in the West (Oregon).
Also curious as to health care here. We are a very "blue" state. Would love to hear what each of you "see."

Zoron, you recommend Massachusetts, but that area like where I live, is in danger of disappearing when polar ice caps melt, right?

Can we be "safe" anywhere in the coming years?

Thank you,

LB

I just want to throw my two cents in. We are all worried, and I can't give anyone real answers. Months ago before this forum, Zoron posted a long note on the future of North America, I can't remember the exact details, maybe he can re post? But the broad outline was that Canada would peacefully regionalize (big question how?), that the New England states would be closely allied to Atlantic and great lakes Canada. The west coast would be allied to British Columbia, and overall the northern coasts on both the Pacific and Atlantic would be peaceful, prosperous places, closely allied to each other albeit with a changed landscape due to sea level rise. The countries would no longer exist was the essence. I wish Zoron would repost. 

Before any of this happens, the United States will go through considerable pain, Zoron also mentioned that the south and other areas would be very hard to live in, because of the evil policies enacted there. I want to caution myself and everyone not to panic and rush for the exits. I don't know yet what my decisions will be, but I will plan carefully for the next few years so that I have options whatever happens. I think everyone should do the same, continue living the way you are, but start planning long term, put in place plans and options for any eventuality. If nothing happens, great, but if something bad does, you are less vulnerable. I don't want any of us to lose hope, or panic, just to be mindful and plan. 

I hope this post wasn't too gloomy. My apologies. 

Hi Natalie.

I remember that post well and it was a good idea to bring it up. Thank you. 

Not in panic mode, but want to plan the best I can for whatever comes. Each one of us will face different challenges and those will depend upon our ages to a great extent. The older of us will be more at risk on many levels and because of that, need to plan even more carefully. Today, I am 58 years old, which means in the years we are discussing, I will be extremely vulnerable. In asking questions, am just being prudent.

I feel the same. I am much younger, not yet 30. The question comes up about whether to have children, and I don't know if we will. We want to, but how responsible would that be. We all need to ask questions and plan carefully. I wish you all the best in the future. 

Natalie

And I have never shared this with another human being, but this feels like a safe place to share it now...

Since I was 9 years old, I have known I would be here on earth when this happened and I have dreaded it.

I live in Central NY, it is close to Lake Ontario and the Fingerlakes, pretty much centrally located. I can get to Niagara Falls in about 2 hours. Our region has lost a lot of population over the years mostly d/t different industries leaving. We also have very cold snowy winters. I like to think that keeps out the riffraff lol. Anyway, I feel it is one of the best kept secrets -- we have lots of parks - in the area, 4 seasons, decent highway system, we hardly get heavy traffic. I feel good about staying in this area. Our housing prices are one of the lowest in the nation but we do have a higher than average property tax, and NY state taxes. I love our guv. They just passed tuition free state college for people making less than $100K. Anyhow, if you feel an urge to move North, just enter in Syracuse, NY into Realtor.com. I live in a suburb outside of the city (18 min to the city, 10 min to rural area). While many upstate counties did vote for Trump, Onondaga did not.

Kathy,
I was born and raised in Syracuse, NY.  It was a good place to grow up. One of my sisters currently lives on Tuscarora Lake.

I grew up in Toronto on the other side of lake Ontario. And even though the ocean smells better, i miss the great lakes a lot. We used to travel to Niagra falls and wasaga beach alot growing up. There's something about those lakes that feels magical to me, i feel an emotional and spiritual connection to them. Sometimes i think lake Ontario talks to me, its sounds ridiculous but i can feel its energy. I think this is a safe place, we all want to support each other here. I've felt since I was little that i would end up living off the grid in a post empire world, i still don't get what that's even going to be like though.

from: Zoron.

Subject:

replies to Natalie and others, re medical situation, and my long report earlier this year. i am going to disinter from Archive, and update, so others can take a look, and work on it. Lets try and do a "Majority Report" on this. I feel the time is ripe.

LB, You've brought up two issues  -- the best states for liberal health care and social programs and the best regions for the climate of the future. The answer is complex and will vary by short-term versus long-term.  

For the short-term, move to liberal states, like Massachusetts and New York; and over the long term, move to the Great Lakes region.  I don't know what states will be liberal over the long term because climate change will shake up the demographic and political make-up of states.  Right now, blue versus red populations follow urban versus rural regions more than they follow states. So rural states tend to be more red, and states with large urban centers tend to be more liberal. New York City is very generous to its citizens, but upstate is conservative. 

For the Long Term: But if the coastal states lose their big cities, the liberalness of a state may change.   When New York goes under water, (I'm thinking this will near the end of the century), the whole city just might move to higher ground, keeping NY liberal.  But if most of them migrate to other parts of the country, they will leave New York a rural, and more conservative state. 

 For now, however, I'd stick with New York - a liberal state with a large urban population and a Great Lakes border.  And I'd move to the Great Lakes region of New York to be ahead of the crowd.  Real estate prices will rise in that region over time.   

Now, just purely intuitive, I personally feel drawn to Burlington Vermont.   Toronto and Montreal also attract me-- big beautiful cities whose history will remain intact, and liberal, educated populations that are near a lot of fresh water surrounded by farms.