Questions for anyone who has gotten through enough of the book to respond:
Does this book change your own view of the climate future?
Are there measures they take to turn around the climate that are realistic, doable, politically? Technologically?
What in the story is most unrealistic to you?
What in the story is most likely to happen?
What do you see as the likely climate future?
@jeanne-mayell Great questions, Jeanne! Will have to review a few sections again to make notations (should have done that as I read along, sigh)... have a couple of memes popping up in my head... am going to have to mull it over and write out my response offline... will take awhile to create a cogent assessment (from my perspective).
Will break up my response by taking one question at a time... loved the book! Thanks!
It definitely changed my view of climate change. It made me realize that sea level rise is much more imminent, dangerous and closer than we realize. It made me feel like the only way we can reach the point where the planet takes it seriously is if we have a Children of Kali-like group. I also feel like it was the least believable aspect of the book. In this ultra-conservative country, a group like Kali would be deemed terrorists immediately and an enemy of the state. Hence, the media would blow them up and they'd be public enemy number 1. They'd never get away with it. It would just feed the conservative-brainwashing machine. Anyone with values that look even remotely liberal regarding concern for the environment would be called out like a witch in Salem. It would be the GW Bush years all over again with hysteria running high like after 9/11 but only much worse. The ultra-rich would start a campaign against anything environmentalist (I know I know... This is pretty much already the case)... I could imagine Guantanamo being reopened and people thrown in there without their rights being regarded. Thus, assassins of the environment would never work. And when the terrorists are caught and tortured to give up their sources, which the US is good at doing, then the UN would be forever stained and come crashing down. Thus, we'd fail to accomplish the one thing we're trying to accomplish. So, No, a Children of Kali would never work.
I think reality is going to set in pretty soon. I mean you can't ignore the fact that all time high temperature records are being broken this year in the most unlikely of places like the UK. Wells, aquifers, lakes and rivers are drying up. Great technological advancements and achievements are taking place which will one day provide people with alternatives to gas and oil. As much as people dislike Biden, would anyone else have been able to accomplish what he has? Sure, the world is in a terrible place right now, but that won't last forever. For instance the infrastructure bill will allow for America to one day have electric charging stations across the US. He has switched out gas powered vehicles with electric for federal vehicles, if I recall correctly. And all while keeping us out of WW3 with Russia which would end it all for us. We needed a president who would throw caution to the wind and make the changes necessary without worrying about his ratings and trying to win the next election. Because the reality is Time is not on our side at this point if we want to curb climate change beyond disastrous levels. My guess is, he realizes that at his advanced age he doesn't really care what people think of him anymore and realizes he's a one-term president, so he was going to do everything he could to set the stage for future generations. Oh and he got us back into the Paris Agreement. So I think we have just the right person for the job at this time. When we look back in 20 years, I think we will realize no one else could have accomplished what he did given the hand that he was dealt.
Something daunting I hadn't thought about before: That losing the world's coastal cities, which is inevitable without action, would mean chaos. Robinson's definition of chaos: when money no longer works as money.
I had assumed that losing the cities would just mean people would move away from them and locate further inland. But consider that you can't move 6 to 20 million people out of a city on short notice.
Consider that 37% of the world population is living in coastal cities.
The book also. provides some realistic solutions that give relief to the terrifying prospects of climate change.
So I'm seeing the climate changes with more nuanced eyes, both the daunting realities and the solutions that humanity will devise.
My biggest takeaway: We got through Covid. We got through Trump. We will get through the current SCOTUS decisions.
Our process is first to ignore what is coming because it hasn't happened yet. Then terrible things start happening as climate change begins to accelerate and millions die, as in the 22 million who die in a week in the book. We freak out with the enormity of the pain we see coming en masse if we don't turn it around. Then we leap into action and start turning it around. Overnight, a new paradigm is born. We get behind the curve of disaster and prevent the worst.
We are now at the bottom of a mountain looking up at a hard trek. Or perhaps it's not a mountain but a tsunami that is coming and only climate experts and intuitive people see it on the horizon. If it's like a tsnumani, once it is overhead, it will crash down no matter what we do.
It's going to be a more expanded version of Covid which I felt back then was a dress rehearsal for climate change. Read what happened in northern Italy when Covid hit, and unbelievable stupidly and greed caused a massive spread and soaring deaths there. We are approaching that point now with climate change.
Like Covid, we will suffer unimaginable losses due to climate devastation, and, like Covid, we will spring into action to prevent the biggest losses yet to come.
The only part of the book I can't imagine happening is the violent take-down of climate deniers, oil and gas promoters. But I want it to happen. Climate activist Bill McKibben called the oil industry the Darth Vaders of our times. They and their political sycophants have to be disempowered, stripped of funds, jailed, marginalized, removed from the mainland, sent to a far away island, without electronics or visitors, no voice, no access to media. As stated in the book, they are serial killers of unimaginable proportions. Once there is unimaginable death in our backyards from climate change, I think the Darth Vaders will be neutralized.
Since it will take centuries to bring down atmospheric carbon naturally, I think they will try to pump water from below the glaciers to prevent them from sliding into the sea as is currently happening at a rapid pace. This action will save the coastal cities. I also think that shooting aerosols into the atmosphere will happen and will help cool the planet.
@unk-p, @chromosomexy @lovendures @freya
For two years When friends complained about the disruption caused by Covid… I told them the same thing that you have Jeanne… Covid is practice for climate change. If I said it once I’ve said it 100 times… Even my friends who know climate change is real… Are now suddenly shocked at the temperatures showing up around the world… The book is painfully correct… But “My sense” is we will not have to have the children of KAli kill off the idiots at the top of the food chain…
In the US, my sense is that the GOP is gonna be shocked at how angry citizens are when fish lips and his cohorts are kicked to the curb. I think we will move quickly… We will begin taking action within the next four years at a rapid pace. Mitigation will become “fashionable”… we CHOOSE. That’s a big theme in the book… Getting off your duff and never giving up…
Going back to my point about Biden being the right president for the job at this time, it looks like he is just about ready to declare a climate crisis emergency and start using his pen to sign executive orders regarding climate change.
TFG was a bad guy and a terrible president but as is always the case, within the darkness there's always seeds of light that are planted... For example, because all of America suffered through the trauma of 4 years of his presidency, many more people now understand the tricks that psychopaths use against their victims. We are becoming a much more enlightened culture as a result of his abuse of power. My thought is it will be because of what we've gone through with TFG, that we will begin to see through the lies and manipulation more easily of the psychopaths and narcissists running big corporations and working against our interests and working against our understanding the threat of climate change. When the populace understands more fully how we have been duped and tricked into believing these lies, we can begin to undo the brainwashing.
@jeanne-mayell this week I week I took a course through one river institute connecting our mn educators w those in LA and we had a geologist explain his billion dollar projects to restore the coast in NOLA. The bottom line was that a massive percentage of our GDP is connected to the shipping that comes and goes through that port area - I’m sure the east coast and west coast have similar considerations- but the country simply cannot stay afloat without these shipping ports being open. He reminded us that post Katrina gas prices surged higher than even today and that was bc of the immediate shut down. It brought home how important this turn around is and also how expensive the work is. Much of this money is coming from the oil spill settlement but what was overwhelmingly clear was it will be much cheaper and easier in us all if we prevent catastrophe than if we try to clean it up afterwards.
I hope his projects anticipate the impact of what the new coast line will look like with sea foot rise, especially in that area.
New technology that is expected in the next decade. Carbon capture trains with solar panels to suck CO² out of the air.
The Daily Beast: Startup CO2Rail Is Building Trains That Capture Carbon Dioxide Out of the Air to Fight Climate Change.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/startup-co2rail-is-building-trains-that-capture-carbon-dioxide-out-of-the-air-to-fight-climate-change
I'm very excited and hopeful because everyday I'm reading articles about new technologies that are in the works to help the climate crisis.
Jeanne, can we start a new post to talk about these new technologies?
The crew of Grain de Sail, a sailboat carrying a load of French biodynamic wines—without the carbon emissions of a cargo ship—hoists the mainsail and floats into town.
@jeanne-mayell Add solar receptive sails and it would not only match The Ministry... but also a vision of the future I saw about five years ago... slower, simpler... combined with ingenious technological solutions... tapping into ancient techniques like permaculture... our better future is already beginning to dawn.
There's no reason at all that small sailboats couldn't ply coastal waters replacing some of the north/south shipping that now goes to diesel trucking and diesel rail traffic (at least no reason that I'm aware of.. tax issues? Right of way? Customs between countries).
Solar drones for Amazon deliveries? I think the US is already wrestling with the issue of air traffic... humm... I do love the new rolling battery-operated carry drones that follow people from store to city apartment... they follow their master just like the "Luggage" described in Terry Pratchett's hilarious, clever DiscWorld series.
On the same theme, I'd love to somehow help the "half earth" concept evolve... more open corridors for animals (and plants) to move more freely north/south, east west... slowly but surely expanding wild territory which bars human habitation and exploitation. This would tie into my vision of the future, too... humans surrounded by the wild, protected by hugh barriers to save the wild from humans and humans from some of the dangerous wild creatures (this also was in my vision). Similar ocean corridors could be established first nationally then internationally. Designated protected areas are already beginning to be established off US coastal waters...
We need to encourage a return to large stretches of sand dunes, marshes, wild land off our oceans and around our rivers and lakes.
Question is how do we get started? Or more to the point how to I as an individual get started? Surely there are organizations that are already trying? Sierra Club? The Nature Conservatory? Does anyone know of some source for finding/assessing such groups? I don't even know how to find/assess them in my own state (NJ).
Hopefully someone in our group is more clued into "the movements?" Are there publications? National/international?
We need more climate solution activists sneaking right past the political dinosaurs!
Finally, how do I get rid of the letter "P" that shows up at the end of every one of my entries? LOL. I'll stop nattering on now... Love to you all, Freya
@freya I don’t see any P’s at the end of your entries, but if you are referring to when you use Microsoft Word then the reversed “P” is a paragraph mark. I use Microsoft for Ipad, and in the upper right hand corner is a paragraph formatting drop down. Click on Paragraph Mark to eliminate the P.
Your visions of a world where humans and other animals are co-existing in greater harmony fills me with joy. I'm just beginning to inform myself about the topic, and there is so much to learn that at times it can be a bit overwhelming.
The Wildlife Corridors Conservation Act of 2019 was approved in the House but didn't make it out of committee in the Senate. However, this letter in support of the legislation, signed by dozens of conservation groups, might be a good place to find an organization that resonates with you.
But while this piece of legislation didn't pass, the subsequent Bipartisan Infrastructure Law allocated billions of dollars to conservation. Here are some of the highlights, including wildlife corridors!:
- $350 million for a first-of-its-kind grant program to construct wildlife-friendly roadway crossings and reconnect fragmented migration corridors.
- $250 million for the Legacy Roads and Trails Remediation Program to improve access to Forest Service public lands and safeguard fish and wildlife habitat from harmful runoff and pollutants caused by roads in disrepair.
- Reauthorization of the Sport Fish Restoration and Boating Trust Fund, which pays for fisheries conservation, access improvements, and education for anglers and boaters.
- $1.4 billion for natural infrastructure solutions through the Promoting Resilient Operations for Transformative, Efficient, and Cost-Saving Transportation (PROTECT) Grant Program.
- $14.65 billion for the Clean Water State Revolving Fund Program, which supports estuary restoration and stormwater management projects.
- $400 million for WaterSMART grants, with $100 million set aside for natural infrastructure solutions that enhance resilience to drought and wildfires, facilitate water conservation, create new habitat, and improve water quality.
- Significant investments in programs aimed at enhancing the resiliency of Western watersheds to climate change and drought, including $300 million to implement the Colorado River Drought Contingency Plans, $3.2 billion to modernize aging agricultural infrastructure and generate benefits for fish and wildlife, and $50 million to support ongoing Endangered Species recovery efforts that sustain habitat for native fish.
And here's an update from the Department of the Interior on the wildlife corridors.
A book that I found absolutely life-changing is Wilding by Isabella Tree. It's the story of a farm in southern England that the owners turned over to nature, and the incredible benefits that have resulted. While the UK's conservation issues are of course somewhat different from ours in the US, the underlying theme is the same: the necessity of creating space for our fellow creatures and plants on this dear planet of ours, and the fact that they will stabilize and then thrive, if we let them.
Hope this is helpful. I don't know of any New Jersey-focused organizations, since I'm based in Texas.
@gbs Wow. Good research. Thank you for the list of pending legislation and the link to the list of participating organizations. I’ll check it out.
The second time I went back to look at the world 100 years hence I took a trip via a helicopter-like vehicle up to see Greenland. Bad news? Greenland was completely ice free which does not bode well for us. Good news? The ocean south and west of Greenland was bursting with healthy marine life. I sensed their joy as marine mammals jumped and twirled in the air before re-entering the water.
That same energy seemed to fill the human communities I observed in my vision… the human species was undergoing a renaissance… we had experienced loss… but met the painful challenges and were bursting with enthusiasm. We had a colony on Mars. We were monitoring our beautiful planet’s air, water, soil, geology, weather and it’s interconnected web of life. I heard clearly: “this time we kept our technology and our collected knowledge.”
Here's an article title I found encouraging.
CNBC: Why tech workers are quitting great jobs at companies like Google to fight climate change.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/26/tech-to-climate-career-changes-why-these-workers-left-jobs-like-google.html
Maybe this...
Interesting Engineering: Fertilizing the oceans with iron could help remove a gigaton of carbon dioxide per year.
https://interestingengineering.com/science/fertilizing-the-oceans-with-iron-could-help-remove-a-gigaton-of-carbon-dioxide-per-year
Yes, in fact, there have been unauthorized experiments with iron filings. One big worry is that there are no international agreements regarding geoengineering to mitigate climate change. A nation or private company could undertake efforts with potentially major unintended consequences.
Unfortunately, I think we will need some sort of effort to cool the planet quickly.
Sky News: Scientists propose controversial plan to refreeze North and South Poles by spraying sulphur dioxide into atmosphere.
Looks like this might happen sooner than expected?
@lenor Don't know why I missed your response before. Thanks for trying to help... but it's not a paragraph mark... I've used MS Word for decades (after I left corporate; I was a hack freelance writer for over a decade)... so I know what a backwards P means... it's not that. In the scheme of things... it has no importance at all... LOL. Tah.
Will the world start geo-engineering the atmosphere to cool the earth? In the 2020 cli-sci that is the subject of this thread, climate action begins in earnest after one country has one horrific heat wave, causing that country to start spewing aerosols into the atmosphere to cool the planet. In real life, this past summer China had nearly such a heat wave causing the country to consider seeding clouds for rain. Manipulating the weather is against international law, so these actions, which are clearly going to come to a head in the future, will become big news in the not-too-distant future.
Climate activist Bill McKibben lays out the geo-engineering issues, including the pros and cons, and global implications, in this New Yorker article that will help anyone come up to speed on an issue that could well be a big news story during the next El Niño.
Dimming the Sun to Cool the Planet is a Desperate Idea, Yet We're Inching Toward it