I love your description of that vision so much. Still gives me chills! I love the word "meandering too". Because Pete has that calm, steady temperament. And I tell you one thing, when he gets there he will have worked DAMN HARD for it against an array of obstacles and forces. So he can take his time getting to the podium and savor it. ? ?
don't know if it's accurate, but I went on Astrotheme and it says 9 p.m. South Bend IN. If they don't know they put noon, so maybe this is right. No birth time for Warren.
I hope it wasn't Tucker Carlson! I read today there is a possibility he might consider running in 2024!
@lenor, I just revisited that Oval Office scene in 2021. It's the same -- an empty, light-filled, clean, happy room. That cloud of darkness is gone, and the room is now waiting in anticipation. In anticipation for what, I don't know. Does a Dem win? Is T. reelected but exits quickly in 2021? Although right now I don't know the outcome, I breathe a sigh of relief.
Why have so many sold their souls to the devil? I'd been driving myself crazy thinking that if you believe in a higher power, in an afterlife -- which many of them profess to do -- then why is all of this greed and (false) sense of power, so important to them? There's that saying, "You can't take it with you." To me, it's the definition of insanity.
Conservative columnist David Frum has an interesting take on it, when he states the following: "[T]he president does have this one preternatural ability, which is if there's any crack, any moral weakness in you, he's got this ability to find and work on it and pry it open and make you a lesser person than you would otherwise be. And again and again, he meets people who you think are too big, too honorable to need any of this and yet he changes them and grinds them into dust. It's a heart-rending sight."
To Frum's quote I would add: not just who we think are too honorable to need any of this, but who they themselves think are too honorable. These people have lied to themselves for so long, that it's not that difficult to cross that line. T. is like a malignant cancer that spreads and infects everything he touches. But I believe many of the people you mentioned sold out a long time ago. They've just convinced themselves that they have some semblance of integrity, and that the ends justify the means. T. is just bringing all of the rot to the surface.
I've stopped trying to figure out these enablers, because it's exhausting and a waste of my time. My only commitment is to keep awake, have courage, and spread light -- wherever, whenever, and however I can. And I pray for Mayor Pete, Harris, Warren, and all of the Dems that are running. May they remain true to the courage of their convictions, be divinely protected and guided, and a beacon of light and hope for all of us.
Jholmes- you spoke from my heart. I have felt the exact. Same. Way.
Word for word.
about pete.
Exact same!
Sometimes I cant explain why- even though I could go through and list policy, why I think he’d take the midwest, etc—an even larger part of that is my intuition that draws me to him. Like you I also have my feelings about warren & harris- and was the same about hillary.. but this feels different. I too get weirdly emotionally empathic about him (not common for politicians with me).. and I think its because I relate strongly to his positive, bright eyed, genuine nature that comes across so strongly to me. I relate to it, and I almost feel protective of it. Odd of me to say.. i care about politics and am passionate and informed, but I never have been one of those cult- types.
Anyway- i just felt you worded very well something I was struggling to articulate myself. Bravo
side note- i grew up in ohio. My republican, trump supporting dad said that if he were to vote for any dem in 2020, it would be pete. I was shocked. He said “he seems like a really smart, nice guy actually”.
This is huge- my dad hates bernie, warren, aoc, etc. he is a walking fox news talking point, thinks all “leftists” are socialist- want handouts- makes fun of their “crying” ... the works. But he likes pete. My millennial friends who voted for trump in 2016 have also all said they like pete a lot and would definitely vote for him, but probably not with another democrats candidate.
I think that says something important. Perhaps those who voted for trump are not all based on what we thought, maybe its how a candidate brings them out to vote, instead of what issues they vote on... hmm.
Thanks for speaking on this, I really appreciated it and I can tell you I deeply agreed with everything you said.
At the time that I had that dark horse vision I was a little unnerved about it because of the military uniform and the dark colors — the horse and the man’s clothes.
That could have been just a fear I had of something I didn’t understand which happens especially in this political climate.
It was only later that someone told me the vision was probably a metaphor for a dark horse. :-)
Lol about tucker. I would categorize him as being too famous to be a dark horse,
so I couldn't have been seeing him. And I don’t think he ever served in the military.
I think it's telling that so many of us have a "feeling" about Pete. It's hard to watch him and not think he's something really special.
Jholmes, awesome, intelligent, cohesive and inspiring but mostly totally resonating with how I felt the first time I heard him speak.
Oh, may this only happen by the co-creative manifestation by the majority of all Americans who also feel that hope, that peacemaker, loving and deeply spiritual energy he resonates.
In any combination of a ticket though my heart loves any female+male in unification ticket ???
Just wanted to let you all know that there will be a one hour special on Buttigieg this Sunday evening at 10pm on MSNBC.
@lynnventura
Mayor Pete makes me want to unite with people I disagree with. He makes me want to see common ground with many more people. He brings out the best in people. He makes me smile and I've seen audiences also smile when he speaks.
Thank you for your lovely post. I love that you feel the same way about Pete. I can relate to your feeling protective of him. I feel that as well. Sort of like "he's too good, they'll stomp him out" kind of worry. Or worry about homophobic attacks, which I've seen and are utterly vile. But light and love are stronger than we think and I feel he's got a lot of inner backbone. I pray, hope, he will be able to weather anything they throw at him.
"Perhaps those who voted for trump are not all based on what we thought, maybe its how a candidate brings them out to vote, instead of what issues they vote on."
- There's something to that. I believe the majority of people vote much more by emotion and their gut than by policy. And I think his genuineness shines through in a way that makes him easy to like for a wide spectrum of people.
The election of Boris Johnson this morning was distressing, even though it was not a general election but a vote of only 100 party members. It's still reflective of this era we're living in. It seems we are living through a massive "last gasp" battle between white nationalism and patriarchy on the one hand and a more diverse and inclusive world on the other.
This is why Republicans have gone all the way to the wall on cheating and even conspiring with the enemy in order to hold on to the reins of power. And why so many Americans and peoples of other countries, people that you would not expect to be racist or vile, support these movements. The pundits are right -- Trump is not popular despite his racism. He's popular because of it. Because so many, including white evangelicals, fear losing their grip on privilege. I guess this was inevitable. It's one thing to put up with a small minority population and ignore them or keep them down. It's another to accept that the brown people are as numerous as the white and demand equal say.
I know this has been discussed extensively elsewhere on this forum. I bring it up here because Buttigieg is a linchpin, I think, in when and whether this era will turn. He frequently talks about how we are at the cusp of a new era, and how the decisions we make right now will determine our path for the next 30 or 40 years. He gets it. He is someone who is committed to racial and gender equity, welcoming refugees, and kindness and compassion. He is not just the "anti-Trump" but the "anti-white power" figure.
I really hope that my gut is right about him winning the election, and even helping carry the Senate in 2020. Can you imagine what he could do in four years to pass legislation to protect and preserve our democracy?
I hope the world is ready for the wheel to turn and usher in the next era. They say you have to reach the bottom before people are willing to take the necessary painful steps to improve things. I feel like we're at the bottom. I hope so. I hope it doesn't take something like the holocaust to bring people to their senses.
Hello all my light working friends-
On deetoo’s point about ‘not being able to take it with you’ reminds me of my Dads saying ‘ You never see a Brinks truck following a hearse’ is so true haha.
I also have a sense about Pete since I first saw him speak. He was in the military so I think he will gain a lot of respect across the board. Some will never accept him, but I think most in the US will be sick and tired of the Trump train by 2020. Pete also has the power to get the young people out to vote.
My vision on the Jan reading for President was a tall man with a long black coat and women VP. This was before knowing about Mayor Pete. I feel he is our guy. My gut feeling is that Harris would be VP. Time will tell and we will continue to send light to them all and to our tribe here.
I believe the majority of people vote much more by emotion and their gut than by policy.
@jholmes --
I totally agree. I think people are responding to Buttigieg's inherent goodness and decency. I'm not saying that the other candidates don't possess these qualities -- they all do -- but there's something about Buttigieg's transparency that makes you take notice and smile. He's a healer, and people are picking up on that.
Your comment also made me think about Tim Wise, a published author, educator and anti-racism activist who was interviewed on a couple of programs yesterday. Wise worked extensively on defeating political candidate David Duke when Duke ran for U.S. Senate in 1990 and Governor of Louisiana in 1991. He draws from that experience when he explains that the Dems should make racist politics the central moral issue of their campaign. Wise states, “I would say crafting an argument that this is an existential crisis for the nation--and making it about Trump's bigotry and who we want to be as a country, would be far more effective in inspiring them to make up their minds.” Wise discusses this in a podcast interview he had with Slate: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/one-activist-wants-to-use-the-anti-david-duke-playbook-against-president-trump.html
He also addresses this topic in a long series of tweets, which are worth reading if you have the time. I am attaching it here: https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/status/1152930670093787141
Just to add in about the lgbtq aspect of pete, and what people *truly* come out to vote for.. also, in regards to if people will be too hateful or not ready for an openly gay president, or say, a woman president.
I’ve thought about this a lot. Forgive me because this is quite long- i might turn out to be one of those novel writing types here.
Im not sure if it has anything to do with what people in this country are ready for as many suggest. My proposal is this- If a woman or lgbtq ran on the republican ticket, i dont think these people who say any of this bigoted things, would still be saying them. In fact- i think they’d still be voted in.
This is why a lot of republicans and right wingers back up and mass worship people like Andy Gno (gay far right journalist) and Milo Yianoppolis (gay alt right).
And as we know now, Hillary didnt lose because she was a woman, it was because of russia, maybe her lack of support in key states, gerrymandering, cheating.. etc. not that gender didn’t play an important role, though- i was one posting about how america loves gun more than it loves women, and hillarys campaign and the 2016 election, was proof of that.
I think a lot of people *said* they didnt see her as “strong enough”, capable, too emotional- and whatever other sexist BS they could find. And In some cases, this was true for them. Theyre sexist. Plain and simple. But in others.. i think it was just an excuse, actually. They wanted someone to hate, and they took talking points off fox news, et al.
If hillary had run as a republican, or if god forbid ivanka ran in 2024, i think those same people would be turning out to vote and say it was in the name of feminism. Seriously. The people who base their vote on sexism and bigotry, might actually be in the minority here.
So—- Ive heard the sentiment of “our country isnt ready” not from the right, but actually, from the dems, out of fear.
specifically- my mothers age (60 plus) who grew up and live in more conservative areas, that know how deeply homophobic and bigoted people around them are and can be. They grew up with it. They dont have faith that things will change. I understand the sentiment. How could we not think that, when we see such hatred and bigotry coming from the whitehouse on a daily basis?
And The lgbtq community continues to this day, to be under attack. I work at an lgbtq center. and although we see homophobia in the form of prejudice, inherent bias, jokes, etc.. maybe its not the same fervor and directness it was 20 years ago- even 10 years ago, or 6 years ago. Let me explain.
i think, out of fear, people regularly underestimate a couple of things. Before i go further, I want people to know this isnt me diminishing any discrimination or the injustices many have faced and continue to face, but rather me being optimistic about where we are with lgbtq folks, and these identity issues in regards to politics and how they are weaponized and aggravated to pull voters. We all were shocked in 2016 at just how bigoted so many people close to us were..
but I believe the bigotry we see on the right (save for the alt right, and evangelical) is large in part due convenience. Doesnt make it better- Its still bigotry, but its contrived, mostly.
Most trump voters i know, actually aren’t terrible people. a lot have dual post graduate degrees, volunteer at homeless shelters, have gay relatives, work in philanthropy, have poc in their life who they care about deeply, who theyd never think of hurting, and care about quite a bit.
Its kindof strange and confusing honestly. Ive struggled quite a bit. And i dont deny that maybe this is who we’ve always been. I know the 2016 election lifted a curtain- showed us what hate people are capable of and what many have faced their entire lives that white straight cis folks have conveniently ignored for centuries. But heres what i think- this bigotry we see, is largely a manipulation from the top. Deep down many republicans know this bigotry isnt okay. If my trump voter dad had heard that i had told a classmate of mine, especially one with immigrant parents- or girl of color to “go back to where they came from”- hed be mortified. Hurt. Hed feel so upset and wonder what he did wrong as a parent.
but because trump is “their guy” who “saves them *their* money” who supports “their issues” they go along with it- defend it. Even take part.
I am willing to bet a vast majority of trumpers, even GOP politicians- dont actually give a shit about preserving “western culture”. Nope. Its money. And who they perceive is a threat to their power. The voters are angry at the politicians they feel hurt them, they either vote with their wallet, or fox news has brainwashed them into thinking its their only option to survive.
Heres why i think homophobia will not be a direct factor in attacking pete or cost him the kind of votes we fear it will. The first being that anyone below 40 at this point, (the vast majority) or at least millennials and gen z do not even consider the lgbtq angle. If one of us did, they would be socially ostracized. Yes, really. I cant speak for everyone in all of the US, but i know for the most part- it kindof just makes you a douche bag. Even as a young child in the 90’s- if someone had said “being gay goes against my religion/ values” we’d be like “okay, religious nerd” and they’d be viewed as pretty strange.
Its not cool or really acceptable to hate gay people, at least for us 20-30 year olds. The kids who say “it goes against my values” for the most part are a very small minority, and i know, at least where i grew up in cleveland- we would consider them religious and uncool and strange as hell. Now, cleveland isnt alabama, so theres one thing i cannot speak for.
But Most of us grew up with a lot more tolerance than that, and left or right, would not even focus or consider this (apart from how amazingly significant and cool it would be.) for us, its literally just not cool, likeable, or admirable to be openly anti-gay. Even the truly anti-gay people, won’t be direct about it, because they know how much that would ostracize them.. even on social media, their college friends. Etc. its just ... not even considered, in my experience. Maybe its because pretty much everyone knows someone who is close to them who is gay- or maybe its because we grew up on watching ellen and will & grace.
And factually speaking there are more millennials than there are boomers (if we can just get out and actually vote- hopefully weve been woken up- as we saw in record numbers in 2018)!
i have many conservative friends of this age range, some in red states, others not, and although perhaps they still carry homophobic ideas or microaggressions in how they speak, they would be quickly called out and told “okay.. chill, not cool dude”, if they ever showed themselves to be anti-gay. they are, surprisingly, fully on board with lgbtq. The mindset for most is- “it doesnt matter who they are, if theyre a good, honest person, a hard worker, i dont really care.” seriously.
There are a lot of pretty shitty, trump millenials i know from a distance, that actually profess (true or not) that they love gay people, have many gay friends, and have zero issues with gay marriage. Yes i have heard people outright say it goes against “their values”, but my point is it wouldnt be a millenials reason to vote or not vote for a candidate. Not by a long shot.
I can guarentee you, if they were angry enough, if trump pushed it enough, he could help elect a gay republican president. I wholeheartedly believe that. Evangelicals are a minority. If they can be tricked into voting for a man who openly cheats on his wives, has been married 3 times, swears, talks about “grabbing women by the p***y”- i think its time to consider whats going on here.
I know many who hate “socialism”, despised hillary, even chanted “lock her up”, and say “they should go back to where they came from” They might bring up “how can pete run a country when he cant even run his own city” or “what a nerd!” or whatever else they can find from trump. But- i dont believe trump would make the lgbtq a point of attack. It would make him look bad- cost him votes.
This brings me to my second point.
I dont think its cool/ trendy/ acceptable in the eyes of the social media age anymore to attack someone for being gay. and whenever someone (left or right) has made a public homophobic attack they are either shut down, laughed at, or drowned out. Yes, franklin graham has a voice, but no one *really* cares about it. You only see republicans play to people who are like this for a vote. You think trump and his supporters give a sh*t about franklin graham? I would wager no, not as many as youd think.
You can see this in action in even how (most) conservative politicians have approached lgbtq issues - they wont outright shame or actively, directly call the identity out— they just cover it up with some more acceptable terms, and then say “all americans” to make us forget they’re lying.
Again. This isnt to say at all that homophobia doesnt exist, that lgbtq individuals dont still regularly face inequality and oppression, or that homophobic and transphobic policies and ways of thinking are not deeply ingrained and systemic. What i am trying to say, is that people, even the deep down homophobic politicians (see: mike pence), are ashamed to be outright about it. They do mask it with “its only about policy” “its about funding- we dont have the money for trans folks!”, and that still remains, and is still homophobic.
But- theres something to this. You can see this effect in a vast majority of even trump supporters. My parents, trump supporters, would NEVER attack pete for being gay. They just wouldnt. Hell would freeze over. Not ruling it out- ive come to expect the unexpected. But, even if they wanted to. This is because they are desperate to believe that they (trump supporters) are the victim- the underdog- truly good kind Americans. I think perhaps trump knows this, and knows how to manipulate that and play into it well. They are the ones who wave the flag- who care the most about our countries bravest heroes. 9/11. They desperately want to be the good guys. And they actually believe when they lock kids in cages- they are. Trump is just that good and letting them believe they still are.
And you hear it in the same tone of trump supporters, trump himself, and even the alt-right leader richard spencer, who claims “gay people are welcome to our nationalist ‘movement’- ” (if you don’t know who this is- dont look him up. It will ruin your day. Pure evil, neo nazi).
that isnt to say we wouldnt see trump supporters saying “a gay man just cant run the office like a straight man can!” Like we saw in 2016 with the “a woman just cant be president, theyre too emotional” in regards to HRC.
But i have a feeling this isnt how all, or even a majority of these voters actually feel.
My point is- are there people who wouldnt vote for pete because hes gay- subconsciously or not- Yes. But democrats were *never* going to win over those types anyway.
I just think, those people, who we fear could bring pete, or a female candidate down, are in the minority. We dont really need to rely on them anyway.
Trump is proof of how basically half the country votes. They got a morally vacant candidate, who most people admit they dont even like as a human being, to win on the ticket for the party of morality and family values. Cmon. They dont care about what they say they care about.
Im convinced a lot of them just wanted to throw a wrench into the system, and liked seeing themselves as a victim, and trump- their fighter and savior. Because it *felt* good
Again- Perhaps this is too optimistic of me, and I’m blinded by my millennial perspective, and i welcome more thoughts on this. I cannot speak for deeply red or southern states. I just don’t think a democrat would get those votes regardless. trump will demonize anyone successfully for those people. If biden is nominated, then to those red voters- a gay president will look better than biden. The devil would. And thats how trump got elected.
You wont see trump, tucker carlson, sean hannity attack pete for his sexual identity.. not directly. Moral character? Man of god? Family man? I mean... Where would they go? Its not a winning fight. And yes. Some will try. But it wont be the loudest voice- not by a long shot. What is trump gonna do- say that pete has weak moral values? Its very clear- even to the biggest conservatives that thats just not true. Apart from being gay, pete appears like the poster boy for traditional values. That is who republicans *think* and desperately want to believe they are. I predict attacks on his “strength” “too young/ naive” “not a fighter for america” “socialist” “joke”. Whatever.
Remember- trumps attack on hillary wasnt her gender. It was her so called corruption. The clintons. Did people not vote for her because shes a woman? Sure. But mostly, they didnt feel she was fighting for them- didnt find her genuine. Didnt feel like she cared about them. - she was an elitist. The swamp. A liar. Evil pedophile- etc.
My point is. We shouldn’t underestimate that the people who we need to win over to the dem side, the swing voters, the obama to trump voters, the battle ground states... i feel pete being gay would have almost nothing to do with whether or not they vote for him. Really. What we need is someone who can get their votes by making them believe he is genuine, and cares about them and their issues. We need to sell them something. An idea. As bad or illogical as it may sound. Trump couldve had an affair with a man by now and i dont think he wouldve lost any of his base.
The reason i focus in on this is that it has me thinking about how politicians dress up racism, bigotry, homophobia as “policy positions”, and how others who maybe arent even as bigoted as them, fall for it. and how, the rest of us sane people see it and think “then they are truly bigots too”
But perhaps its more complex than that.
Maybe they dont want to face the people they support, maybe theyre ashamed, maybe they dont feel comfortable calling it what it is because of what it would mean about they themselves, maybe they were just tricked into believing it really *is* about trump’s policy. Maybe they just want to believe someone good is finally fighting for them. Maybe they’re scared. Or maybe, like i said, they just want to believe they’re the good guys- however deluded it may be.
My dad and his partner (they are doctors) once told me that “women shouldnt be allowed to be doctors- they take jobs away from men, and then always go part time to have kids!” i was shocked. My dad- the guy who paid thousands to send me and my sisters to a women’s empowerment focused- science based private all girls school. Where we were taught to win engineering and research awards, where they refused to teach home ec... The man who’s dream was for me to be a doctor and follow in his footsteps. What???
So i asked him later on what he meant and said, “dad- so youre saying you wouldnt want me to be a doctor if i tried?” I clearly was hurt. He immediately reacted “oh no no, honey not at all, of-course that isnt what i meant...” i blocked out the rest. Unbelievable.
Confusing.. but i think it speaks to something. Are these bigoted talking points we hear regarding immigrants, lgbtq, poc, women... are they genuine beliefs? Or are they just fed to them to spew out. Or Are they both? How much power exactly do fox news and trump have over american’s behavior.. votes.. hatred.
i’ll end here. But, have hope. I strongly believe that the vast majority in this country- more than we believe right now, are not as deeply bigoted as what this man in office represents. Pete being gay, or harris and warren being women, or any other identity- we might hear the attacks and bigotry, but im not convinced its those issues that drives them to vote, and im not even convinced they themselves are fully on board with the hatred they spew. There are too many contradictions, hypocrisies about the ideology behind the man they support itself.
For some, perhaps this is all true and they really vote with their prejudice and bias of one’s identity. But I wonder how deeply our country has fallen, and if what we are seeing is a mirror, or just the masterful aggravation of a select few at the top.
I think you're right that Pete being gay is ultimately not going to hold him back from the presidency. There's this article that says that almost 70% of Americans are OK with a gay president. And I think there's something to what you say about self-interest. Many people "held their nose" and voted for Trump either for economic reasons or because they wanted to burn the house down or whatever. I think even people who are not super comfortable with LGBTQ would "hold their nose" if they felt everything else about the candidate was right, and he would serve their interests.
And, like you say, the younger generation just doesn't see that as a factor at all. The people who are violently anti-gay are likely hard-core Repubs and wouldn't vote for him anyway.
To me, his being LGBTQ is an asset. And here I'm gonna get into a bit of woo woo stuff. But. I studied kabbalah a bit and in the Tree of Life, the idea is to balance opposites to find the ideal path or the path to enlightenment. For example, Judgement and Mercy are opposites. If you are too much on either side it's not healthy, but being balanced in the middle is ideal. Male and female are another of these pairs of opposites. I believe people who have a balance of masc/fem traits are more evolved and ideal for roles like peacemaker or philosopher or spiritual leader.
That doesn't mean you have to be gay. Gender is much more complicated than that. I'm female but I have a very masculine way of thinking and test androgynous on psych tests. My husband is male, and straight, but he has a lot of "emotional" feminine traits. He's very nurturing. But anyway, I think people who are gay or trans are very special and naturally have that mix/balance of m/f characteristics. So I guess I'm saying I'm not shocked that a man as gifted and kind and special as Pete Buttigieg is a gay man. He's also left-handed, so make of that what you will!
If democratic voters actually came out to vote we would never even have a republican potus again. The dems problem is just that - getting their own base to come out and vote. Now they also have to contend with cheating and Russian interference on top of it all. My father who was 90 when he passed away, did vote in 2016 for Trump because he said "I can't go voting for a woman! She can't be in charge of the armed forces!" (OMG !! he's gone but I still cringe hearing him say that to me). The other problem is older people turn out to vote more than younger folks. I mean retirement age and above. They have no trouble finding time to go to the polls. They don't work, etc. It's an 'event' for them.
I hope the younger folks vote in 2020. That would ensure a vote for Mayor Pete or whoever the democratic nominee is.