@ana Oh Ana do not be discouraged! I too am an empath and I felt your pain. No one here meant to come across as judging, that I am sure. People here are beautiful though we are all works in progress! Your words were heard and your sweet soul is seen. This is a safe place! Trust that you found yourself here for a reason. Please stay! We have much more to learn from each other.
Put my points on a smaller scale: Let's say it's your birthday. Two of your friends weren't invited, but they show up anyway because you haven't returned their calls. One of them takes your cake, throws it on the floor, stomps on it, yells at you, and leaves. The other one yells at you, threatens to punch you in the nose, but keeps yelling instead. A third friend, on hearing this threat, sides with you and punches the second friend in the nose and then leaves. Only one act is violent, and it's not the one with the cake or yelling. None of the friends had a good excuse for their actions, but each of them had their reasons (which is a different debate). There was no act of self-defense, but they both wanted to make a point, they both wanted to be heard. No approach was ideal, and yes, violence occurred, but the real violence was from that third party, not from you or either of the first two friends. Which of these three friends is most accountable, then? I say it's the third one, the one who actually harmed another human being.
Stores and other buildings can be rebuilt and repaired (which requires people to have jobs doing the rebuilding, btw). Jobs will return eventually, and as a taxpayer I do not mind one bit chipping in for insurance - whether property, health or unemployment, of my fellow Americans. The reporter who got shot in the eye will not regain sight in that eye. The 186 people killed by police just in California, since 2013* will not get their lives back. I think the figure for the US is approximately 2600 people of color killed by police since 2014 (sorry couldn't find an exact link to exact data).
It's unacceptable and nothing to date has worked to change it. I don't blame the actual protesters at all. I do blame agent provocateurs, both homegrown and foreign, for escalating the property damage that is leading to violence against people.
Not trying to pile on you, but wanted to reply to you because you replied to me, tagged you so you would return, and this is an open discussion in any case.
"which police intentionally set" --??? Please confirm/clarify!
"there were hundreds of posts saying protesters needed to head to our local malls and riot, So, they boarded up our mall this morning."
--Most likely these posts are coming from outside the country. Read the article in this month's Atlantic about how Russian trolls and bots are very adept at manipulating American behaviors. The Russians are using the alt-right, they already convinced them that civil war is a good idea, now they are working to get the ball rolling, so to speak.
Posted by: @jeanne-mayell
...While I watched the agitators, I thought of how our CIA sent right wing agitators into Latin American democracies back in the 60's to create enough chaos to oust democratic leaders.
That's exactly right. Our government perfected similar operations in Central and South American countries, ordering coups and propping up despicable regimes. And there's plenty of reason to believe that we also sent both right-leaning and left-leaning agitators into the former Soviet Union and East Germany in the 80s and early 90s in order to amplify social unrest and discord in the lead up to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dismantling of the former Russian republics. (That doesn't mean these weren't genuine movements.)
Back at the first of the year when we were all stunned by the operation that killed Qasem Soleimani, I remember reading about how he'd perfected asymmetrical tactics in the Middle East. I could be misguided here, but I have to think the US gave him lots of historical inspiration in that regard.
As a former KGB agent, Putin is notorious for not believing a single civic protest in his country is genuine. To him, they're all foreign operations provoked by the CIA. Of course, nothing is purely black and white. And it's a natural human instinct to eventually rebel against oppression.
Tonight, Confederate monuments are being torn down. And there are reports that Stonewall Jackson's personal battle flag was taken out of the headquarters for the United Daughters of the Confederacy and burned. Good riddance.
@runestoneone I used to live eight blocks south of where George Floyd lost his life. I was in the area today, distributing food, then drove down Hennepin, took Lake through Uptown from the west toward 35w. Everything boarded. The smoke was still in the air. Drove down Nicollet ... things were boarded up all the way to 46th, at which point I got on the highway. There was so much angry graffiti, but also many messages of peace and tributes to George. I am grieving for this city and its people, I'm enraged by the outside elements coming in to cause more harm, and I'm incensed by the individual militarized police who continue to escalate things unnecessarily. Runestone, if you need anything, please let me know and I'll get it to you.
I see self-defense as the one excuse for violence. But I don't see how tearing up your own town is self-defense.
These people are not locals. They are also not black.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10158445817822148&set=a.39754097147&type=3&theater
This man is also not a local. He is also not black. The black ones are the ones trying to stop him from doing what he's doing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYCb17RjUTQ
This is ground zero in Minneapolis, and these are not the people who live there. These are, from all reports, hired guns and other outsiders coming in to cause havoc. The governor of Minnesota, the mayor of Minneapolis,and the mayor of Denver have all said that most of the damage and violence is being instigated by outsiders. I will not assume nor will I state unequivocally that no one from Minneapolis is looting or damaging property; I'm sure there are some who are. However, neither is it wise to assume that just because it's happening there, it's being caused by those who live there.
@Ana, it's a confusing time for all right now. @vestralux and @Laura-f I agree with your points about how white privilege is invisible to those who have it. But it doesn't help if we pit ourselves against each other here in this forum. Instead let's try to educate each other with kindness.
Saw this only just now.
I was attempting to do only that: to educate with kindness. To create a dialogue around a critical subject, and one I feel I have a responsibility to create with other white people. I want this space and all others to be safe for People of Color, for everyone. It has never been my way to pit people against each another, and I don't believe I've done that here, but I welcome being shown how I may have chosen my words poorly so that it appeared that I somehow was.
I'm a double Sagittarius, and am notorious in my family for being "very direct." Statements that wouldn't cause offense for me personally might do so for someone else, and that is absolutely never my intention. This may potentially be a blindspot for me, and I sincerely invite anyone here to point it out to me when and if they see it occur. (Though I may ask for specifics as, again, I am a double Sag.)
I don't want @ana to feel unwelcome, much less to leave on my account! I hope she'll stay in community with us. This is a very difficult time and we're all feeling it, as you said. So we need each other. For encouragement, feedback, support. All of it.