Answering some people’s technical questions about the impeachment process:
At the federal level, the impeachment process is a two-step procedure. The House of Representatives must first pass, by a simple majority of those present and voting, articles of impeachment, which constitute the formal allegation or allegations. Pelosi would make sure she has the votes before moving forward. They would have to define exactly which crimes he will be charged with.
Upon passage, the defendant has been "impeached".
Next, the Senate tries the accused. In the case of the impeachment of a president, Chief Justice John Roberts would preside over the proceedings, not Mitch McConnell. The Senate then votes and only a super majority (2/3rds in favor) can find the president guilty.
Last two impeachments: Nixon resigned before he would have been impeached. Clinton was impeached for lying to a Grand Jury but acquitted in the Senate.
Jeanne: Using the cards, I ask Mueller what he is feeling. He is currently in the Hanged Man position - i.e., in an impossible position.
"The special counsel's team has conveyed the notion that Mueller does not want to appear political after staying behind the scenes for two years and not speaking as he conducted his investigation into President Donald Trump. One option is to have him testify behind closed doors. But the notion that Mueller would only answer questions in private has become a sticking point, according to a source, as Democrats believe the public needs to hear directly from the special counsel."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/21/politics/robert-mueller-testify-congress-negotiations/index.html
This afternoon I heard Congressman James Clyburn being interviewed about Mueller testifying. Clyburn acknowledged that Mueller doesn't want to testify in a public Congressional hearing because he doesn't want to appear political after being behind the scenes for two years. So for right now, he wants to testify behind closed doors. Clyburn said that concerned him, but he understood Mueller's concerns. He said that would work because Congress would still have Mueller's testimony that they could release to the public. That's not the same thing! The public needs to hear it from Mueller.
Sigh ... I think I see a chocolate bar calling my name ...
I just heard someone on the news speculate that Mueller could be hampered because he still reports to Barr, hence his reluctance to testify publicly. The Hanged Man.
No, Mueller testifying behind closed doors will not be quite the same as having him appear in a public hearing.
I get that Pelosi does not want to do this, only to have it go to the Senate and not be tried properly, or tried and not produce an impeachment consensus.
However, what they really need to be doing now according to some legal experts and DC folks that I read is holding impeachment inquiries. If the house were to hold impeachment hearings to determine if articles of impeachment are warranted, they could call witnesses and you get the public to hear what some of these witnesses have to say firsthand. You'll hear the McGahns, and the Cohens and such telling their versions of the story. Meanwhile, you'll still have the news covering things like the money laundering issues at Deutche Bank. Once the public starts hearing what has really been going on, not what they are being fed by their media choices, you'll see Rumpel's 38% approval rating sink even lower. You'll see more republicans who haven't read the report actually sit up and notice and join Justin Amash.
They need to start getting tough on those who don't respond to a subpoena as well. Fine them, don't just hold a hearing and find them in contempt with no consequences. If the fines don't work, then let them face jail time.
Mueller may not be testifying soon. However I found it interesting that Rex Tillerson was spotted today going into the house building where the offices of the chairs of the Foreign Affairs committee reside. He's been quoted as saying "So often the president would say, here's what I want to do and here's how I want to do it, and I would have to say to him, Mr. President, I understand what you want to do but you can't do it that way. It violates the law." Tillerson has also said he knows there was Russian interference in our election. He was one of the only US individuals in the room when Rumpus met with Putin in Germany.
Not only that The Washington Post reported tonight that they got their hands on an internal IRS memo draft from last fall that says that they have to turn over his taxes unless he invokes executive privilege. There is no basis or precedent for that.
Nadler has also subpoenaed Hope Hicks and Annie Donaldson.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I've always felt he'll be gone. Tho not in the year I felt when he was first elected. Many of you may not see an impeachment, and maybe there won't be one. Impeachment hearings in the House could well do the trick. He could quit, be forced out, or have health issues related to all this that get him out before impeachment is an issue.
Honestly, I think the problem with Pelosi and all the other House D leaders is they are living in the past, playing a 1990s-2000 game plan in a 2020 world. In the 80s and 90s, the pendulum swung back to a more conservative view and you had to be a "nice" D to survive. Now, the pendulum has swung the other direction, but they are still trying to use the 90s playbook.
Obama succeeded in my view because he abandoned the 90s D mold. But the House leadership is still stuck there.
As I watch all this as an older boomer, I keep thinking that what's killing this country is a 90s mindset in a 2020 world. I like Pelosi, Feinstein, Clyburn, but they are stuck in the past. Experience is good when it guides you strategically but it's bad when it makes you overly cautious. I feel like we're in the latter situation.
It's been almost 40 yrs since Bill Clinton & Al Gore came along as 40-something "can't stop thinking about tomorrow" folks. Pelosi, Clyburn, Feinstein, all the House and Senate leadership is really that generation (my generation and even older). It's clear it's time for the mantle to be turned over to bolder voices that understand the current electorate. Ds are not going to win the folks stuck in the past -- they relate more to ppl like T and the turtle.
Re all this stuff going on, I firmly believe that Nancy is mainly scared, Mueller is scared. More concerned about their reputations than the country. Neither is really in a trap, only a trap of their own making that requires that they look a certain way. I've been thinking Mueller really isn't the hero he was made out to be -- if he cares more about his rep than the country, that's not a hero in my book. Amash is the model for "do the right thing", not either Pelosi or Mueller.
I know I'll get blowback for this but just my two cents and I'll leave it out there.
I feel sad that Mueller wants to "walk away" from all the hard work he did for almost two years. How could he, as a patriotic American citizen, want to wash his hands, especially because he KNOWS (if you read the actual report) Trump is guilty of crimes, but couldn't indict. If Nancy Pelosi keeps stalling, she will lose her base of support in the Democratic party.
hey mb, i also think that maybe Mueller is not the hero that we want and need. I mean, besides being a lifelong republican, he has been friends w Barr for decades (!). (i have had some pretty craptacular friends myself, but, damn!) It seems as if he took great care to not look anywhere that a crime may have occurred. Just not buying the poorly scripted animosity between Drumph and the fbi. Psycho-drama designed to make us feel that Mueller is sincere in his (lack) of findings.
Is this the same organization that put the thumb on the scales just before the election in 2016? That infiltrated and tried to destroy the Civil Rights movement? and the Anti-War movement? and the Black Panthers? Is this the same agency that was "protecting" us while MLK, JFK, RFK, Malcolm X, and so many others, were murdered in the streets? (funny, that never seems to happen to fascist pigs) Is this the same group that drew up plans to assasinate the Occupy Wallstreet activists? The same agency that works out of a building named after J Edgar Hoover, and never had the G__ damned decency to change the name over the front door? Is this who we really thought was going to help us?
Unk p:
It is too early to draw that conclusion about Mueller. Let him resign on May 31 as planned and see what happens in June.
Thanks for the info on Tillerson Cindy. Now that is very interesting news indeed.
I have felt for some time that Pelosi is holding on too tightly – almost like a mother who is afraid to let go of her child. Possessive. I can feel it and see it in her face. This is as much about Pelosi’s ego as it is her love for our country.
And I agree – I’m sick of their 80's-90’s political mindset. As an older boomer, we’ve had our chance – we’ve done some good things for this country, and made a royal mess of others. I’m not saying that Pelosi and the rest of us boomers can’t and shouldn’t still make a contribution -- there is infinite wisdom in these old bones – but it’s time for that rite of passage.
deetoo, that's exactly what I'm feeling about Pelosi. We've done some good and bad, but it's time to let that next gen make their moves. I like some guys like Ted Lieu, Eric Swalwell and so many of the D presidential candidates. This is such a different world and the old guard Ds are just out of touch in many ways, as much as it pains me to say it. Our boomer contributions are important to continue, but it's time to recognize the need for fresh blood and leadership.
Unk p, I don't mean to say that Mueller is a bad guy, but just not the perfect person we made him out to be. I think he's putting his own rep above country -- and the heroes of the world put what's right and best for the country/others above their own well being. I think he's a decent guy but is creating his own prison if that makes sense.
This morning Pelosi stated trump was engaged in a cover up. Then trump walks out of infrastructure meeting and has press conference in rose garden, rants and raves “he doesn’t do cover ups”. I got the impression he had this all planned out before hand, he was expecting Pelosi to announce impeachment hearings. Which he could use as a victim for his re-election bid. He’s angry she didn’t go for impeachment because everybody knows he always does cover ups.
I believe this is exactly what Nancy was anticipating. It's easy for us to sit here and criticize the Dems in the House. We are honest striaght forward thinking people. mango and his advisors are not any of those thngs. they are underhanded, dishonest. They play games to net gains for themselves with no adherence to the oaths that they took or the laws of our country. Getting rid of them is not going to be easy. They lie continualy and are as slippery as an eil. Sooner or later the people of this country are going to be tired of being put last in the eyes of the Rep government. Hopefully we won't have to wait until the 2020 election. As for Mueller, I think he is going to testify bt not until he is free of Barr an the DOJ.
Yes, I think Nancy is playing him like a fiddle in stating T is leading a cover-up. She is clearly moving toward impeachment, without saying the word that T can weaponize. And it's driving him insane.
I agree that Nancy drives him crazy. It's a sight to behold.
I really appreciate reading everyone's thoughtful views on this topic. It gives me a lot to think about. Scary times, and no playbook to follow.
I definitely don't attribute the political skill to Pelosi that many here do.
I remember the many losses and missteps -- from 2004, to completely dropping the ball on 2010 RedMap redistricting (I personally wrote her and the DNC about it multiple times, and now it's our achilles heel), to "you'll know what's in the ACA when we pass it" (really bad PR). I am personally ready to vote her out even though I supported her for speaker initially. We are here with a D House majority because of a the grassroots, not Pelosi or Schumer or Perez.
It's fine if ppl don't agree w me but I don't agree that this is all a masterful plan. I do think the hearings are a good idea as a story telling mechanism, but they are even dropping the ball on that, handing over the narrative to T and Rs on a daily basis.
The shift of states from purple to red from 2000 to now is a prime example at how Rs have outplayed Ds. We've had a few bright spots (Obama, the Blue Wave) but a master wouldn't have had all those losses and shifts in states. Her skill is writing legislation and vote wrangling, but I've never viewed her as a PR master or good predictor of state elections.