the only Hell that exists is the place without God. The only people that go there are the ones that don't accept God because how can you go to someplace that you don't believe exists. Is it fire & brimstone? no. that was made up around the 1600's I believe, but not sure. Hell is a place without love. So it is a hell, just not the one we envision.
The rest of us, depending on what we have learned, how giving we are, how caring we are, etc. go to different levels. We have earned our way to these levels and each one comes with its perks. We can learn on the other side but it takes much longer because we can't actually experience what we can experience by living here. I don't know if we can choose to come back or if we have to keep coming back. I hope we get to choose because this will be my last trip. I absolutely do not ever want to come back.
We can travel to these different levels but we can only travel down, not up. We have to earn our way to any level above us. We help others that are on the lower levels so they can get to the upper levels. We spend our time helping and teaching others. I do not know what the end game is or if there is one. This is all I know so far and not sure I'll ever know more about it while I am on this side : )
As far as those that we believe are going to hell, where they are actually going is to the lowest levels. I think they have to keep coming back and until they can at least get to a 2nd level.
Brandy, are babies or people who suffer from severe dementia or retardation excluded from going somewhere because they don't know it exists? A friend and I used to picture ourselves on the other side tinkering with our astrological charts: I think I'll put a square here and get blindsided there, because I need to grow in this way or that in my next life. We were wondering what the heck we must have been thinking. Imagine if everyone thought the way you did, though. If we all knew we had to come back, we might take care of our earth, because we knew we might end up in a random Shri Lankan garbage dump the next time around. We might work harder to make everything a lot better, because we knew the child we betrayed today would be the one we were born to tomorrow ...
I'll tell you what I saw when my grandmother died.
In my family, when someone is ready to pass, oftentimes we get a case of the 'twitching awfuls' and have a hard time settling down to sleep. My Mom had driven 250 miles to be with Gramma, and had been gone a couple days. Hadn't heard from her. The next night, I got the twitching awfuls...restless legs, a sense of 'something happening.'
I meditated, lying in bed. I clearly saw Gramma lying in a dark room on a black velvet covered table. Her chakras were muddy and dark. I told her I'd get her out of there.
I proceeded to counter spin each of her chakras from the 1st up to her crown, pushing the energies from each chakra up to her head. At the seventh, the crown chakra, I held my hands behind her head, and said "ok, breathe with me, and on the count of three, out you come into my hands & I'll catch you."
So we did, and out her soul popped into my hands. Then she went nova. It looked like a series of compressed and stretched images accelerating up to an event horizon. Being the curious sort, I tried to follow, but my silver cord bungeed and snapped me back into my own body.
Five seconds after that, I felt a hand press the top of my head. Annnd.... nobody was there.
I opened my eyes, and there was Gramma, Grampa, Great Gramma and Grampa, and Dead Aunt Donna.
Which quite flipped me out. I threw the covers over my head. 15 minutes later, I got a call from my Ma, telling me Gramma had died 15 min ago.
So, yeah, I think I saw some of what happens after death. There is a soul, it goes somewhere, my sense of it is a 'higher dimension' that is very dynamic with a lot going on.
Since then, I've had a few other doings with post-death issues. IMHO, conservation of soul applies. We continue learning and growing. It's a mistake for us to assume just because someone is awful that they are not serving The Divine in some fashion. Even rotten fish makes great fertilizer. Nothing goes to waste.
Our perceptions of what is 'real' are necessarily warped by the limited numbers of dimensions that we can see in. Transcendent Divinity operates in all of them, and has a great deal more scope than we puny humans.
If I say more than this, I'd have to write a theological treatise. R1
grace
no. only the ones that actually deny the existence of God. And not just on earth. Even if one is an atheist on earth one still has the opportunity to acknowledge God once they get to the other side. Once on the other side any aliments or disabilities are non existent so they are free to acknowledge God.
the problem is if every one knew for sure that reincarnation existed it could work the other way too. They might feel they can do whatever because they can come back and do it right the next time. This is why reincarnation will never be able to be proven. I think those that believe in it are the ones that don't take advantage of it and try their best. Similar to why we will never be able to prove life after death. If we could prove it then we wouldn't have/need faith.
This is something I've wrestled with talking about for awhile. April 12th 2015 (4 days before I turned 35) and again April 12th of this year at almost the exact same time as the first my heart went into tachycardia. The top half of my heart died and the bottom half started beating at 265-280 beats per minute.
I'll start with the first time this happened, I was out for a walk with my wife and, out of nowhere, my heart began racing. I knew I wasn't going to make it back to my apartment so my wife ran to get the car, hospital was 5 minutes away. We made it to the ER and for an hour 7 nurses and a cardiologist struggled to get my heart rate down. Nothing worked, I was then informed the last ditch effort would be to essentially stop my heart and restart it with a defibrillator. I asked the send my wife out of the room so she wouldn't have to watch me die. I've never told the rest of this story, not even my wife of 16 years, because there were warnings about talking about what happens given I was allowed to "return". I want to tell the rest of this story but I'm worried about consequences. I'm not trolling, but I need someone smarter and more spiritual than I to confirm that this is something I can continue talking about. I know it sounds crazy but I'm legitimately terrified to continue.
Cronoevolution-it depends on who warned you. God or man?
What would be either the good that could result to others if you spoke, or the bad if you spoke? (Examine situation morally.)
If you have a spiritual practice, is there someone you can consult and ask if you could discuss this? (Am thinking there is a difference between, say, describing the story with a single priestly confessor under seal of confession vs. broadcasting it on A.M. radio.)
The God of my understanding would only want the highest good and love to be served. I would ask if the shadow hovering over you is other than God.
R1
Cronoevolution- this is something only you will be able to decide whether you can share it or not. No one will ever be able to tell you what you should do because they don't know what the experience is.
I do have some questions without you sharing the experience.
Was it a positive experience?
did it scare you?
did it make you feel wonderful?
why do you feel the need to tell it?
are you okay with it if you decide you can never share it?
does it worry you?
do you have a religion and can you pray about what you should do about it?
Kind atheist/former believer here. I don't believe in heaven or hell. I think both can be found on Earth. I do believe that there is some life energy that continues after the body dies, and that it may fade over time but is never completely destroyed. I don't find this incompatible with my lack of structured belief system (nor do I look down on anyone with a structured belief system or faith of any kind, as long as it is not evil - to each his own).
I have had many experiences involving the dying/dead and the about-to-be-born and even the never-born. Somewhere on this forum are my stories of old ladies dying in a hospital, all of them seeing the same "man in a white suit" standing next to me the day before they died. I have had several souls appear to me in dreams to tell me goodbye, including 1 or 2 I didn't even know were ill. I dreamed that all my brothers would be brothers (and not sisters). Twice I have been visited in dreams by souls who were coming to let me know that they wouldn't be born to me in this life, but that they loved me anyway (I never gave birth). I seem to have a squad of rotating spirit guides who come and go depending on my needs at the time, including my 2 grandfathers who were both doctors (I sensed them when I worked in hospitals, and it was a medium who confirmed it - she described them both to a tee, and this was before social media and no way she could have known about them or guessed their names). At one point about 8 years ago, the squad all assembled at once - it was so loud! Both a pagan priestess friend and the medium (who didn't know each other), described each guide and told me what they were saying, all the info matched up. (I was able to meditate and get the squad to calm down enough to come to a consensus, and since then a couple of them have not returned, so I guess they did what they had to do and moved on.) In fact, one of the guides is someone who I share with a couple of other people (confirmed by each of us asking his name, writing it down and then exchanging the notes).
So I think safe to say something does happen, maybe it's best that it remains a mystery. I think it's most important to focus on present life and on love.
Peace.
Raymond Moody is a doctor and philosopher that has devoted 40+ years research to this subject. You might want to pick up his book Life after Life, it is a great read. Also, there is a website you might want to check out www.near-death.com which will link to all sorts of stories as well as to local IANDS (International Association of Near Death Studies). I've gone to several IANDS meetings in the Bay Area (Saratoga) and have met/talked with several people who have died (and returned). Incredibly spiritual people and all transformed by the experience.
I have zero doubts about life after death.
I will answer a few questions but not anything too big. I'm a science and technology guy, always have been, I remember full well before I died that I was going to pay attention to what happened next. A lot happened in the 5 minutes my heart was stopped. Conversations that felt like they went on for hours about what happens if I want to go back and the warnings of what would happen if I talked too much about it. My wife and I are inseparable and I was going back no matter how "interesting" and incomprehensible the things I was feeling, I don't recall seeing things the way humans see things with their eyes.
RunestoneOne: The warning was something I just understood, I can't explain. I've debated the good that may come if I told everything, but I doubt many would understand unless they went through my ordeal. I would say listen to those little voices but never forget how strong you are when fear is gone. I accepted what was about to happen before my heart stopped and was prepared to tell whomever to send me back to my wife. It felt like hours passed then I was allowed to return (for over 45 minutes I've written and deleted so much about this last sentence that I have to leave it the way it is without more explanation). I awoke and asked my wife how long I was out, I was shocked when she said 5 minutes as I had extensive memories and conversations that lasted well over 5 hours.
Brandy Was it a positive experience?: While initially I was happy to come back, I'm constantly thinking about where I was and missing how there was no pain, anger, or emotion at all. I was just content, it's a feeling I've never felt before or since, but I love my wife too much to leave her. Without her there is no me, sounds lame, but our relationship is unusual and I'm not sure why.
Was I scared?: No, slowly dying makes you come to terms quickly that there is nothing you can do. My wife and I are not panicky people, we put our faith in the science of the machines and the training of the hospital staff.
Did it make you feel wonderful?: I awoke and felt like a million bucks, my exact words, even with 3 I.V. ports in my hands and arms. It went away the second day when all the heart tests started (heart catheterization, blood taken every 2 hours, ect).
Why do you feel the need to tell it?: Initially, if someone had asked me the exact question I was allowed to answer I would have told that person everything. It never happened, and after the exact same thing happened to my heart 3 years later to the day and nearly the exact hour, I would start talking about it and give up the ability to tell 1 person the entire story. I can't tell you how everyday for 3 years I waited for someone to ask the exact question so I could tell them everything, but no one ever did, and now no one ever can. I wish I could go into more detail but I can't.
Are you okay with it if you decide you can never share it?: I sort of answered this in the last paragraph, I would love to tell the entire story of what happened, but that wasn't the deal. If I were a braver man I would throw caution to the wind and write everything I can recall, but I am not.
Does it worry you?: Nothing I've wrote makes me feel like I went back on my word, however, it's taken me well over an hour or typing and deleting just to get this far.
do you have a religion...?: No, I was raised Catholic and attended 8 years of Catholic school. I'm thankful for the excellent education I received, but I've never been very religious. I felt I needed to talk about this mostly because it felt like the right time after my second near death experience, which was nowhere near as bad as the first. The second time my heart went into tachycardia I was sitting on my couch relaxing. Fortunately the EMTs saved my life with a medication that somehow blocked all signals to my heart and sort of restarted it. It felt like someone punched my heart from the inside, but it worked.
I feel better talking about some of what happened, I wish I could say more, because no one wants answers to certain questions more than me, but I must be content with what I've shared. If you believe me thank you, if you don't, all I can say is you will eventually face what I did. Just be strong and open to what happens next.
This took me nearly 2 hours, I think I've lost track of time, to complete this. I'm sorry if this felt like rambling nonsense but I was trying to put thoughts down as they came and not go into too much detail, but please understand, I had to stick to the things I felt like I could talk about. Thank you
My story.
Years ago I was in that "half asleep/half dream" state you are in as you are waking up. I heard a voice in my head ask, "Is there anything else you want to see?" (Wish I could remember what else I saw.) I answered, "I would like to see my death." I saw a very elderly version of myself crossing my patio in the fall of 2044 and I cross my arms across my chest and am dead before I hit the ground. I always thought it would be a heart attack but my cardiologist tells me that my aorta is "slightly dilated" and could develop an aneurysm down the road. My first thought was, "ah ha! That's it."
Another time I had violent food poising in the middle of the night and passed out in our bathroom. A voice inside my head asked if I wanted to end my life then and there. I replied that I did not because I had too many responsibilities and too many people were depending on me. I immediately came to.
Since then I have developed ocular melanoma and have been given a 50/50 chance of making it five years. I am still confident of my 2044 "date with destiny" however and my upbeat attitude comes as a surprise to my doctors. Even if this were to take me in the next few years I am okay with that as I like to think that I have had a successful life in that I have learned the spiritual lessons that I came here to learn.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and stories with me.
Cronorevolution: I hear you. Thank you for sharing what you did. Having seen the relationship between my parents, I get what you mean by saying "without her, there is no me." I get it completely. It's a powerful story.
I have a lot to think about!
In my lowest moments of anger and despair, and I've had a few the last couple of days, I wonder if those who make decisions out of hate or fear will ever face consequences. But I guess what I should be thinking is, will they ever learn?
Many thanks to all.
I'm sad to learn that you are experiencing low moments of anger and despair, Quiet. It sounds like you came up with a very wise solution. The older you get, the longer you have to get to see the unfolding consequences of decisions based on hate and fear; for better or worse, they do seem to be divinely guided and to offer lots of material for learning ... for the hater and fearful, the hated and feared, and all of the rest of us in between and all around. Sounds like that magic your parents have created a wonderful you.
I love your story Cronoevolution. It has always amazed me how when I've been in meditation or in some dreams that what I experienced was more real than what I have experienced here on Earth. It's hard to explain to others who have not had such experiences. I've never had an NDE, just some amazing guidance and spiritual events.
One time an individual was put in my path. I kept thinking there was supposed to be more to the relationship (internet friendship) than what I was experiencing. He didn't seem interested, so we just remained internet pen pals of sorts. Then one day in meditation I was taken to an amazing place, where I was shown a book, opened to a specific page. It was in a language I could not even begin to describe, it was so beautiful. Anyway, there were two pages I could see, yet only the bottom paragraph on the bottom left hand page and the one on the top of the right hand page were in focus, no matter how I tried to read the other writing. I looked up and when I could finally speak to the guides around me, 'give him my heart' was the only inadequate phrase I could utter to sum up what I had read from my book. They all shook their heads in agreement. I did as I was told. I expected a different outcome. It took some time and further meditations to understand that I was one of his life lessons, not that I was being guided into a relationship. My intuition and my rational self were reading two different sets of information. When my logic took over, I was shown in no uncertain terms that I had agreed prior to my coming here this was something I was to do-so they made sure I did it. LOL I gave up worrying about what others think of such experiences long ago.
As for what happens when we die, I don't believe in hell. I think we all go on. I simply think that we go to the levels which we have earned by learning. Young/less evolved souls don't belong with old/learned souls on a permanent basis. We don't mix elementary children in school with our doctorate candidates, now do we? I also resonated with Dr. Brian Weiss's information that we have soul groups we belong to, and what we don't resolve or learn in one lifetime, we come back to try again. It's one of the reasons I'm so open about what my earth family's dysfunctions are-so others can learn, and so I won't be back repeating that lesson. I've identified the issues, and have done my part to not repeat the patterns here or in the next lifetime.
My son had never been to church or knew anything of religion, the after life, heaven, etc., at the time my daughter died. One morning this precious 5 year old came to me and told me his sister took him to heaven while he slept. He described it in great detail. He said she had work to do (even noted she was helping new young arrivals), and she put him in a play room with all sorts of toys, and he described it as light, warm, safe, and a host of other descriptors that made me dumbfounded. There was no way he could have had such detail when he'd never been around any sort of discussion or schooling on such things. When she was finished with the job she had, she came and got him from the play room, brought him back home, and tucked him in.
Similarly I've had experiences where she's come to me in dreams or meditations in the physical form I'd recognize. Tho one time on the beach alone, I simply closed my eyes to drink in the sun and warmth, and suddenly she appeared in light form (more like a series of balls of light than one 'cloud' of light). I suddenly found I too had no body, but was a series of lights, and she whisked me off into the ocean exploring. I saw things at great depths. I had no clue there were glow in the dark fish until that trip, and when I returned that night, I was amazed to go on line and do research to find the things I was shown under the ocean depths were real.
No matter how much we've learned here and in the hereafter, I'll always want to know more. The more I learn, the more I realize how much more there is to know.
Cronoevolution - Thank you for sharing your story. It wasn't rambling to me, it made sense. There might be people in your life that you need to connect with (or are connected with) that won't be open minded to your experience. That doesn't make it any less real, it isn't your fault that others may not be able to wrap their brains around it.
If you haven't already, check out the near death web site, you may enjoy reading the stories and find some connection to them. IANDS is a great way to meet some spiritual/open minded people to your experience. You don't have to share it, if you aren't comfortable, but it might be nice to be among people who get it.
Good luck in all your endeavors!
Cronoevolution
somehow I missed your answer.
I do not believe you are supposed to share it. You are looking for answers and you are supposed to find them yourself without the help of others. What you are looking for is out there but you have to find it and decide if you want to accept it and this is why no one can help you. It is your path and your decisions. I think you have been given a great gift. Do not dwell on wanting to share it because it was only for you.
I agree with Codyroo to look into the Near Death websites as you might find some of your answers there.
Much of this rings true to me -- except for the requirement of believing in god. "God" is a human construct and we're all in this machine whether we understand it or not. (I'm also not a fan of the word "angels" because of the Biblical connotations. I'm very into science and I don't find a clash between spiritual beliefs and science, because I think that everything is science -- atomic, energy, etc.)
I have some questions, if anyone can answer them.
- In the afterlife learning system (cosmic college? lol), are souls at the beck and call of whomever they're connected to on Earth? I've always thought that after you die, you either go into the "college" and relearn and are sent back to Earth, or you move on to another level and are done with Earth. The idea that once you die, you just sit somewhere and wait to help an Earth person seems like a real drag. I want to go on -- I don't want to be a babysitter. But, I sense my grandma around me (died in 1976) and my partner often sees her deceased brother who died decades ago. That makes me depressed, actually. I wish grandma had spent the last forty years traveling the universe or at least coming back to Earth for another go. Seems sad to me that people are just waiting over there. And boring.
- We focus on Earth because we're here, but what came before Earth? Is this First Grade or were our souls elsewhere and Earth life is somewhere in the middle tier of our journey? Also, what happens when Earth flies into the Sun in a billion years? College closed? Is it just the "human" experience that we learn from, so it would still all hold together if we colonized another planet?
- Do only higher life forms get to move on? Koko the gorilla recently died -- where is her soul? Dolphins are intelligent. Is growth only allowed for intelligent beings or are there different levels of souls. What about butterflies and birds and even spiders? I feel intelligence from all of them. Do they get to move on?
- How are psychics able to connect with ANYONE who died, if reincarnation exists? A psychic who I believe is real spoke to Robert Kennedy the other day. Another seemingly real channeler spoke to Abraham Lincoln. I find this difficult. Would Abe have been reincarnated or moved on by now? Seems like a Hell of an afterlife, personally. (I guess I'm being redundant now, but this seems to be my primary concern.)
- Lastly -- Earth experience is all flesh and blood, but every report I've read about the afterlife is all spirit. Seems odd. Why wouldn't we move on to another type of flesh and blood body somewhere else? Why is Earth the only level constructed this way? Is it the hardest or last flesh and blood level? Afterward, if we don't reincarnate, we're in some body-less spirit college for eternity? How do you learn from that?
Thanks for any insights!
Hey MizMargo, I'll take a stab at the first question. In 2009 my mother entered an inpatient hospice, where she spent the last two months of her life. When she as admitted I was given a pamphlet written for family members of the terminally ill. It was like a "what to expect" thing. In it was a description of how people at the end of their lives often see their departed loved ones, and talk about seeing and speaking to them. A couple of weeks later when I came to see my mom, she said to me, "Papa is here." She meant her father, my grandfather, who she called Papa. I asked her if she could see him, and she said no, but that she knew he was there. I asked her if her mother (my grandmother, who died before I was born) was there too, and she said yes. Were my grandparents trapped into having to be their earth selves, or did they hang around long enough to take accompany their child so she wouldn't have to transition on alone? I think it's the latter. They're now free to be their soul selves rather than their earth selves.
I wish my mom peace and freedom in the afterlife, but I wouldn't mind it if she welcomed me when my time comes. It would be cool to see her again.
Interesting, Lynn. I was only six when my grandma died, and didn't really know her. I'm not close to any of my family, except my mother, so it would be very disappointing to have my grandad (father's father) show up. He was a loon. I can't think of why my grandma would be attached to me, other than that I'm a professional writer, like she was (no one else in the family is a writer). Maybe she's around to wait for my mom and her two brothers who aren't yet deceased. Still, seems like a drag for any intelligent being, and sometimes I apologize to her that she has to hang around me, lol. Maybe you get to choose your "assignment" on the other side? But I'd literally head straight back to Earth if every one of my dead relatives, including my father, showed up to greet me. No thanks! I'd still prefer that every soul to go off and have a great after-Earth life and be free -- which is my philosophy for the living, as well. Except for my partner. If she croaks first, she is MANDATED to wait for me, and vice versa. ;)