Issues to ponder:
When will a working vaccine become available to the majority of people, by country?
In what circumstances will the vaccine be required? Quantas Airlines has already announced they will require people show proof of vaccination in order to fly on their planes. Will Covid vaccination become part of people's passports? Certainly they will be required for school attendance, since those precedents have been set for years. Will it be required for everyone, or just for schools, or for travel to certain states or countries? Quantas Airlines has already announced that it will be required for travel on their airplanes. I would imagine that there are rights to privacy issues here.
What about people who are allergic to the vaccine?
What will life be like during the post vaccination era? Totally back to normal or never again the same and how?
Vaccine won't be readily available to everyone til summer probably. Early in the year the first run will be those at highest risk and slowly work its way thru the population. With the many groups against vaccines in general, against the rushed vaccine, and those thinking its all a hoax so Bill Gates can control you with the vaccine(cant believe I had to type that but its somewhat widely believed), it will never hit more than 75-80% of the population, at least for a long while.
Government will not require it for passports or mandate it, as that will backfire and throw more people into the freedom debate. How it will probably be mandated is thru schools, service businesses and employers. I can see most or all airlines, theme parks, and hotels requiring it for all patrons. Also, I see a lot of employers mandating it as a condition of employment for the near future(anti smoking requirements have already held up in court so I dont see this being any different since employment is legally a privilege, not a right).
People who are allergic to the vaccine will not be found out until they have an allergic reaction to it, so it wouldve been already administered to anyone known to be allergic. There is no way to tell an allergy otherwise, since a reaction to other vaccines doesn't dictate anything for this one, being a totally different makeup than any others.
As far as how close to "normal" we get after this, we have to look to 1917-18. If you read period accounts and articles, what was said back then could fit easily as something written today. This shows public sentiment for and against masks and toward the pandemic, minus the political divide, was very similar in both events. It will take a while, probably a couple years, for everyone to get back to being fully comfortable with normal life. We will have better hygiene and some older people that are so scared of the next new virus will probably always carry a mask. I do think it will become a fading memory for most after a few years, as long as the media doesn't sensationalize the few new cases we get after it is fully controlled.
@mas1581. Thank you. Well done! Fits my intuitive thoughts that September 2021 will be when we are all getting the vaccine. And many vulnerable or risk averse people will continue to isolate and wear masks through the fall and winter while they watch for plummeting case counts.
I also didn't feel that it would ever be put on passports, although there are calls for that process. But people will likely be required to carry vaccination papers to show to customs officials when entering some countries, at least initially until case counts drop.
I'm sure internationally you will need paperwork to enter some countries coming from the US for some period of time. Most of the world doesn't want Americans now anyways, but that sentiment will dwindle as Biden takes handle of the situation at a level of competency Trump never wanted to.
The major worldwide changes coming from this are going to be a significant increase in hygiene and I also see a huge revamping of the WHO and mandatory international sharing of independent data. The WHO and China both dropped the ball on this one and I think things will be done to prevent this from happening again. There will be a ton of global economic pressure on secretive regimes like China to minimize the risk of this happening again. It won't work with N. Korea, but they are so isolated that it really doesn't matter much. China, on the other hand, will be forced to cooperate fully and stop hiding of data in regards to pathogens. The whole world knows they lied and continue to do so. With Biden bringing the US back to the global stage, we will collectively be able to apply enough pressure to force a change in that aspect.
The vaccine producers will have a list of ingredients that might prompt allergic reactions or adverse reactions in some.
All those receiving the vaccine will have to sign a consent (as with all vaccines and the flu shot) and answer questions about allergic reactions (I.e. “Are you allergic to eggs?” is a question we ask before giving the flu vaccine.)
If there is the possibility of an allergic reaction to one particular vaccine, they will be offered a vaccine with different properties. (As are those who are allergic to eggs and can’t take the regular flu vaccine. They are offered a flu vaccine with a different formulation.)
I am very concerned about nurses not wanting to take the vaccine. However, continuing in their jobs will depend on it. I have heard NURSES talk about being tracked by 5G in the vaccine. I say, well maybe I’ll get better cell phone reception. LOL.
We actually may lose many essential health care workers who refuse to take the vaccine.
First, you have to ask the question "Do I really trust my Healthcare to someone who believes Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci are teaming up to create a vaccine to track people with 5g when we all already have tracking devices called cellphones attached to us?" If a nurse told me that, I'd demand they leave my care team immediately and wouldn't let them even bring me a meal in the hospital.
As far as allergic reactions, thats no different than any other vaccine on the market and is to be expected. Not everyone can take it and not everyone will have it work for them. My biggest fear with a viable vaccine at this point is that a booster is needed and the side effects are mild to moderate flu like symptoms for a day or two. Will everyone go get that 2nd shot when they know they'll feel like crap from it for a couple days?
@mas1581. I agree with you. I’m telling you what I’m hearing from some people I work with. It’s craziness.
And...That’s my point about allergic reactions. It’s like any other vaccine.
As far as coming back for the second vaccine - we will probably receive a note in our medical record plus a paper we keep with us that notes we have had the first vaccine, in which arm, and when we need to come back for the second vaccine. And yes, I’m reading that people will probably want to take a day off work after receiving the second shot. Severe flu like symptoms.
You know, when I received rabies shots after being bitten by a feral animal, I was happy to go back twice to finish the series of shots. I hope most intelligent thinking people will feel that way about finishing the Covid series. I know if you are in health care and don’t, you will not be allowed to work.
If you do work in healthcare and complete your shots, you will have a sticker on your badge to prove it.
I’m attempting to educate.
To relate a parallel experience:
I had my second shingles vaccine shot recently. This vaccine is said to be one of the worst for side effects. After the first shot I had a sore arm for a couple days. After the second one, I had a *very* sore arm and sore shoulder and felt a bit tired and "off" for a total of about 6 hours the day after. But big, whooping deal considering what people go through with actual shingles. I'd do it again, no question-- except maybe I'd get it done on a Friday when I didn't have to work the next day.
But you're right- there will still be some people who won't deal with a little discomfort now to prevent major problems later. ?
I also took the shingles vaccine. I experienced fatigue and a mild fever, then slept for almost 24 hours with the first shot and a lot of discomfort in the arm. Almost twenty four hours of sleep is a welcome diversion for a person who works 12 hours a day. But I woke up as if nothing ever happened to me, except for the discomfort in the arm. I experienced nothing like that with the second dose, only the usual discomfort of the pinch. And I agree with Iridium, that's nothing compare with what shingles does to a person.
I am expecting a similar reaction with the Covid-19 vaccine. Muscle aches, fatigue, arm discomfort and a mild fever (according to WebMD) will be nothing compare with having the real illness. Nevertheless, I am keeping my fingers crossed because, as everyone else, I am hoping these new vaccines are the real deal.
I am very concerned about nurses not wanting to take the vaccine. However, continuing in their jobs will depend on it.
I have heard NURSES talk about being tracked by 5G in the vaccine.
Hi lowtide,
Just curious, I just want to verify whether these two quotes are linked: have you heard about, or spoken to, nurses who don't want to take the vaccine because of legitimate scientific concerns, e.g. vaccine not tested sufficiently or trial rushed too quickly (which would imply the two quotes above are dealing with two separate sets of nurses), or are both quotes referring to nurses who don't want to take the vaccine because they think they might get tracked by 5G?
I hope my question is clear. ?
@fajm Both reasons. Within the same small group of nurses. A variety of ages, male and female. There is a lot of wariness for both understandable reasons and paranoid reasons. Of course, my experience is a tiny snapshot, which is worth little, so don't quote me. I am hoping the majority of nurses will gladly take it!
thanks @lowtide - still, it is concerning, considering the medical profession, at its core, is a science-based field.
Nurses not wanting to take the vaccine because of legitimate concerns is one thing, but saying no to a vaccination because of reasons such as 5G makes me inclined to agree with @mas1581, these people should consider changing profession (I know you agree with mas1581 too).
@fajm. I do agree. It is difficult to understand the level of denial of reality and conspiracy thinking that exists until you are confronted with it by people you trust. These are excellent clinicians who work their hearts out. But there is a glitch in their thinking, off duty, in my opinion.
Just wanted to clarify your assumption of the side effects of the covid vaccine. You will get the fatigue, aches, lethargy, etc, but the fever has been high(102-103) and the aches described as quite intense in a significant number of people in the trials. Thankfully, it usually lasts 48 hours or less. Just want everyone to know what they are possibly in for
"I'm sure internationally you will need paperwork to enter some countries coming from the US for some period of time. " (MAS1581)
On the news last night (forget which one) there was a story about the vaccine that mentioned a card people would have to carry that would have the dates of when a person got the vaccine, about the size of a license.
I also recently had 2 doses of shingles vaccine; it wasn't bad, just made my arm sore...
First, you have to ask the question "Do I really trust my Healthcare to someone who believes Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci are teaming up to create a vaccine to track people with 5g when we all already have tracking devices called cellphones attached to us?" If a nurse told me that, I'd demand they leave my care team immediately and wouldn't let them even bring me a meal in the hospital.
If I knew a nurse who believed that, I would want that nurse to be given some training. Just in case someone is nervous that vaccines can implant tracking devices into people:
Such tracking technology does not exist except in science fiction. It needs a battery. You can't inject a battery or tracking device via a needle.
You can get a chip implanted in your pet's skin but it doesn't track your pet's movement or location. The chip has your phone number in it in case your pet gets lost and is picked up and delivered to a vet who has a scanner. Also that chip can't be liquified and injected via a needle.
2. As @mas1581 said, people can already be tracked via their cell phones. Also your license plate, driver's license, car registration also help with locating you via police in case you decide to throw out your phone.
Given the widespread use of technology that enables authorities to track people, such as cell phones, DNA (Twenty Three and Me) testing, and Internet use, it surprises me that people need to invent a way to be tracked that doesn't even exist.
From a Slate article on this question:
In dogs or humans, these RFID microchips only transmit information; for one to track you, it would also need to receive information from, say, cell towers, so that it could receive the data to figure out its location, then transmit it back to the tower. That’s also a pretty power-intensive transaction, which means your chip would need some juice from a battery pack. Think about how quickly your phone dies when trying to find cell service in a spotty area. A GPS tracker needs that same amount of power.
https://slate.com/technology/2020/05/microchips-bill-gates-track-people-vaccine.html
Oh boy. I hope you all know I was joking when I said “maybe I’ll get better cell phone reception”. I don’t believe ANY of this garbage!
Unfortunately I have had the distinct displeasure of being around some people who do.
Thanks for the explanations and talking points if I find myself in such a conversation again. More than likely, I’ll just walk away. There is always work to do. People who believe this garbage can’t be convinced of anything.
My fear is that the Covid vaccine might prompt a similar response as the two-part Shingrix vaccine (for Shingles) which many people experienced as just awful. So bad that many refused to take the second shot -- even though that jeopardized their future immunity. Personally, I forced myself to take both shots (6 months apart) so as to obtain maximum immunity but was sick as a dog for about 3 days each time. Felt almost like "germ warfare" and was frightening. Hope to God this new Covid vaccine is nothing like that...
That is my fear too. For some it is showing to be a pretty bad 2 days after vaccination and many wont want to return to get the booster. With the vast majority of the population not knowing immunology, they will think its not worth it since they are already "immune" from the first shot.