Tonight Christopher Lydon had an excellent show about Bernie that is worth listening to. It talked about how the corporate media has tried to smear Bernie as a toxic commie when he's just an FDR democrat and true liberal. Bernie is not a commie, he's not even a socialist, unless you think FDR was a socialist. He's a democratic socialist. https://radioopensource.org/the-new-red-scare/
My own view is that Warren and Bernie are the only real liberals running for office. The others are right wing liberals who talk nice, but capitulate to the moderate right.
Bernie bashing 101.
From Zoron’s post Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren: Things are stirring 10/24/2017
“The forces of corruption against him, in both parties, are huge. But he forces open the gates.”
Not only MSNBC’s Chris Matthews but CNN’s in on it too—
Published on
Saturday, February 29, 2020
CNN Host Michael Smerconish Rebuked for Comparing Sanders Surge to Spread of Coronavirus
"Nice to wake up to discover that CNN is giving a platform to the idea that the left is a disease. That's never led to anything bad happening before."
I lived in MA while I attended smith and then stayed for a few years after during the Romney governor and warren senator years- a friend of mines older brother (a lawyer) has worked for warren then and volunteering now. I’ve always heard about what a great person she was - he admired her so much- and he would talk about how the Wall Street machine would never let her become president they were so afraid of her. All campaigns and the senator knows that there are powerful forces against her success. But around the kitchen table he would also talk about how Bernie had burned all his bridges in politics- he didn’t care, but the reality is the Washington machine works that way- even if he gets in, he will be a figurehead. Mostly what I learned about spending time with my friends’ brother over dinner was how much we the people don’t know about how things work. We grow up believing we get to choose our candidate but that notion is so false and there is so much we don’t know anyway about these people and their work and relationships. I used to think if Hilary got in the machine would thwart her every move- now I believe that about Bernie. Ultimately I am incredibly positive about the future but I do not follow the cult of personality and I don’t see any candidate as a savior. I suspect All the White men with B’s in their names will accomplish more or less the same. When it came to Obama winning it meant a lot to this nation, the symbolic precedent of a black man winning and it changed the world whether he did anything or not. I hope the same for warren.
This goes along with the thought that "all politicians are the same" and "He preached change in his campaign but didnt do anything he promised when elected" misconceptions. To get anything accomplished in Washington, you have to fight thru 536 other elected officials that all want something in return and ultimately want your job. There is no way around it, and you cant overpower it(Obama used his one bullet to ram the ACA thru and that opened the floodgates for Trump). The checks and balances are great to keep a rogue president from upending the country, but that can be exploited as we are now seeing, although they also curb any real change from happening. The only way to implement true change is to eliminate the money from politics, but to accomplish that you need to convince those 536 people to stop profiting and worrying about job security and vote against their own interests. It can be done, but it is going to take one hell of a revolution in DC to accomplish it.
My mom (in her 80's) told me something surprising today. She said many of her democratic friends, younger than she but not young, will not vote for Bernie no matter what.
Seriously?
They will not vote for a Republican, but will not vote for him either. So they are choosing not to vote at all if he is the nominee. Apparently he is too angry for them. They have issues about Bernie re: Cuba, feel he is misrepresenting Nordic welfare models and economic success because for example Norway has a huge amount of natural resources owned by the state such as oil and gas. They also believe that he is unable to compromise and will not be able to get anything accomplished because he will insist it is his way or nothing.
There are highly educated older people who really dislike him.
Has anyone considered that there really are DEMS who would rather stay home than vote for him?
I dont know if people would stay home over voting for Bernie, but I, myself, am not a fan either. I dont think he will be able to accomplish anything if elected because he has burned too many bridges in Washington. He also has still yet to give any sort of plan as to how he is going to fund his promises. I also feel he is too stubborn to help reconcile the country's differences. It all leaves me with a very uneasy feeling in my gut. I love Warren because, even though her ideas are very similar, she has constructed plans to accomplish her goals and has shown the ability to adjust to what is needed. Bernie has dont none of that so far. I'm not on the "Hes a Socialist" bandwagon, but dont feel he will a positive influence for a country in desperate need of one. It is sad because being of Jewish heritage, I would have loved to see a Jewish President, just not this one.
It is looking pretty clear that Klobuchar and Warren are not going to fare well(although Tuesday will show for sure) so if it is between Bernie and Biden, I truly hope it is Biden. He is far from my favorite but I feel a zero sum President, like I'm expecting Biden to be, will be better than Bernie at this point.
As far as older voters not voting if Sanders is the candidate, the young progressives refuse to vote for anyone but him. They’re why we have Trump now. I’m not a fan of Bernie Sanders, but to me it doesn’t matter who the Democratic candidate is, I will vote for that person. Because I understand that we can’t always get what we want, but we can move in the directions we want. The direction I want to move in most is away from fascism. Further stagnation will be inevitable with Sanders, but our government has been gutted. Just stop the gutting. Sanders’ big plan to get things done is by executive order. I can’t really get behind that, but again... the fascists have forced me into supporting UnAmerican policies.
I've seen a similar anti-Bernie sentiment among women in their 60's-70's who I'm friends with, although they said they will vote (begrudgingly) for him if he gets the nomination.
I do hope most Bernie supporters will support the nominee if it isn't him, but I've been seeing more of the "I refuse to vote for any of the other candidates" rhetoric (from actual people, although there's likely a lot of that from Russian bots also). This frustrates and saddens me a great deal. I'm "Blue no matter who" just like last time.
MAS1581 Some hope yet! MY husband & I just voted for Warren in NC.
Only 325,318 Democrats have cast a vote for Joe Biden.
Only 260,697 Democrats have cast a vote for Bernie Sanders.
There are about 83 million registered Democrats in the United States.
This thing has just started.
I still have hope. My hope is that lets say the candidate is Biden. Then he should pick Warren for VP. This way he can be the figurehead we need to the world and the older white folks will like him. This way the progressives won't be downtrodden completely. In a sense everyone wins. And, God forbid he's sick etc. Warren can step right in.
Now about Bernie, well for him the logical sidekick is Warren. But I do worry about people not wanting him to succeed and that the senate would not go blue if he's in. My personal dream ticket was always Warren/Bernie together but Warren as POTUS.
Just saw this New Yorker article about Sanders. I'm curious what Sanders supporters think of it. Is it a fair appraisal of the man?
He puts Sanders in historical perspective which is helpful.
I had thought of Sanders as an FDR democrat and a social democrat, rather than a democratic socialist. Although Sanders compares himself to FDR and brings up Denmark in his interviews, the article points to Sanders' insistence that he's a democratic socialist and there is a big difference. FDR never called himself a socialist, and Denmark is not socialist, but a social democracy.
While Sanders and FDR spoke about the same things for Americans -- free health care for all, free education, unions; FDR himself was wealthy and believed in what he called Moral Capitalism and never socialism. (But FDR suffered from a disability and was in a wheelchair and many say that is why he was so sympathetic to those who could not work through no fault of their own--the disabled, the elderly, and dependent children.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-socialist-is-bernie-sanders
Liz Warren fits the FDR vision more than any other. She wants health care for all, and break-up of vulture capitalism while preserving moral capitalism.
Social Democrat and Democratic Socialist are pretty much synonyms. I'm not sure why Sanders uses the latter, but I think it's meant to emphasize the socialism.
The definition of Social Democracy is:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social%20democracy
I can't vote so my opinion doesn't matter but if I could it would be Bernie or warren for me. I am one of those progressive millenials who is sick of seeing the politicians being bought up by the corporations. I am also sick of the way the mainstream media is bought by the same. I've got a lot of life in me and so do other millennials, we know the boomers are against us but we are the future and whatever happens now this movement Bernie started is going nowhere, it's only going to grow with time.
I know I sound angry and I apologize, but I passionately believe this country needs another FDR, without a bold progressive vision for the future and the courage to fight for it the slide to fascism will only continue. I support repealing citizen's united, medicare for all, free college, the green new deal and regulating and taxing the banks and the rich. A lot of people will dislike me for this, but I am beyond the point where that matters to me. I want to create a just, fair and equitable society for everyone not just for the privileged.
Apologies for the rant.
@natalie, I understand and can relate to much of your anger and frustration, and am glad you are expressing it here.
I am a boomer, and I'm not against you and other millennials. I love and respect your passion and insights. As a senior, it's invaluable for me to see the world through a set of young eyes. And I know a lot of boomers who also feel the same as me. There are many in my generation who, like you, want to create a just, fair and equitable society for everyone, not just for the privileged. We just may not always agree on the best approach of getting there.
I totally agree with you that the country needs another FDR. In fact, I just got back from voting. I voted for Warren.
"Everything will be okay in the end, if it's not okay, it's not the end" -John Lennon.
I just want to say that everything is happening for a reason. The world is going through a great change right now and from our lowly human perspective, everything seems out of control, chaotic and scary. But, be assured, from the highest perspective (the soul's) all is exactly as it should be. We are here to learn the greatest lesson: Unconditional Love. And right now there is so much opportunity for this. The question to ask yourselves is this: What can I learn from my actions and my feelings? Why do I feel so threatened by the views of others that I feel the need to separate rather than unify?
For the answers, I suggest, stopping, taking a rest from the outside focus and directing your attention inside to your heart. Here, you will realize that everything really is okay, both now and in the end.
@natalie, I understand and can relate to much of your anger and frustration, and am glad you are expressing it here.
I am a boomer, and I'm not against you and other millennials. I love and respect your passion and insights. As a senior, it's invaluable for me to see the world through a set of young eyes. And I know a lot of boomers who also feel the same as me. There are many in my generation who, like you, want to create a just, fair and equitable society for everyone, not just for the privileged. We just may not always agree on the best approach of getting there.
I totally agree with you that the country needs another FDR. In fact, I just got back from voting. I voted for Warren.
gen x-er here, but i agree with what @natalie & @deetoo said. I also just voted for Liz, and it felt great!
@natalie, you expressed my feelings better than if I had written them myself.
I went into this election season all for Warren who I know well and respect. I would love to have her as president. It was a hard decision.
But I voted for Bernie because I feel he is what we need to pull us back from the brink. I doubt we will get him because many dems just want the same old pre-Trump establishment.
But that system doesn't give our children a fighting chance at a soulful healthy existence. It's based on a paradigm that has replaced humane living with craziness, with living to work rather than working to live, with an oppressive existence to make profit for Mr. Big.
Of course I will vote for anyone who we put up against the Orange blight. Biden will be a good transition if he can unite the party and rally the people to a blue Congress.
Well, I believe that may be true to some extent. The flip side I have heard as well. I think by the time the election happens, some will still vote , some will not. But I am sure Bernie voters might feel burned, again. If Biden does end up as the nominee, he will need to be a uniter starting ASAP. He will really need to build bridges. He will need to find a way to inspire young people. He might start with Yang supporters ( AKA The Yang Gang) who are young but would not be upset like like Bernie ones might be. If Biden is the candidate, he would do well to name his potential cabinet early and include people like Warren, Yang and others which could help unite the party. He also needs to start making connections with Latino voters. Trump might not end up as the candidate and whoever is the nominee must be able to win against someone who might not ultimately be Trump.
thanks! I am not American and it all seems very complicated. Lets hope everyone can unite behind a great candidate.