Maybe that's why some of us can't clearly see the outcome of the 2020 election. It's really up to the Dems. I understand that Pelosi is worried and maybe even fearful of making the wrong decision. This is too important, and she can't be reckless. But I feel there is too much strategizing going on. It's time to do the right thing. Faith and courage is required.
I feel Trump will win another four years if they don’t impeach.
Pelosi has held office for too long to make a bold move. She doesn’t speak for the millions who worked hard to give her a blue wave.
I called my congressman for the fourth time this week and this time I said I would work to replace him if he didn’t step along side Amash and call for impeachment. Time is out.
If nothing happens, I will take a deep breath and focus on living in this moment, on gratitude, on equanimity and the more beautiful world I know is coming when a new breed takes over. I will not support any candidates who didn’t come out right now when it matters and urge impeachment.
When Bush urged an invasion of Iraq the same thing happened. Many knew there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but John Kerry and Hillary Clinton voted to go to war. They did so because they were afraid of political consequences. They lived to regret those political decisions .
Jeanne,
I agree with everything that you've just stated. And I'm too frightened to imagine another 4+ years with him, so I can't even go there.
You've reminded me to contact my congressman again. I wrote and have heard nothing back from him.
Jeanne, I'm 100% on the same page with you, too. Thanks for speaking what's in my heart and mind.
Hmm, I feel less certain. I worry that if he IS impeached, without the support of the Senate or at least part of the Senate or at least a strong majority of the population, it could easily lead to his re-election, and I think him being re-elected would be WAY worse than him staying in power for the next year and a half. I agree that it is crucial to keep pressuring the pols to impeach but don't give up on Pelosi yet. . . speaking as a highly-risk averse lawyer who likes to have ALL the unimpeachable evidence I can muster (pun unintended), I think it's possible she's still working on making an irrefutable case. Remember, the narrative at this point is still muddy thanks to the AG's shenanigans and Fox's spin cycle.
I agree with Jeanne, we have to think about setting a precedent that you can do what he has done and get away with it. I want to replace him, but that's not going to happen if we don't impeach- of course the senate wont kick him our but that isn't the important part. It's more important that we stand on the right side of history and impeaching in the house will get the truth out. People need the full story and impeachment is the only way to get it out. I will not and never have chosen to live in fear; doing so, like Kerry and Clinton would compromise our integrity. History did not forget that error and won't forget this one.
My concern is that we're not getting anywhere with the current investigations because of the WH / AJ's obstructions. I support the impeachment inquiry because I think it's critical that the public become educated to what is in the report. I can't see any other way of achieving that purpose. The more people know the truth, the more I believe they will support impeachment. Although the Senate would never impeach, the people will at least know more about T than they do now. And besides: most people would rather watch the movie (live testimony) than read the book. In my view Mueller was a little too subtle in his comments yesterday.
I was struck by a statement made by an older woman who attended Amash's town hall. She remarked that she didn't know any of this about ConDon, and up until that town hall, believed that he did nothing wrong. She added that she only listens to the conservative news channels.
Here's a good link to a lawfare blog about impeachment inquiry: https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-powers-does-formal-impeachment-inquiry-give-house .
I admit that my head spun around a bit when I read the above blog. But I still strongly believe that the Dems need to be bold and begin the inquiry.
I agree the dems MUST go for impeachment. Astrologically, the best time is if they begin formal proceedings in July, then 6 months later the eclipses come around again, that's about the time frame of an impeachment. Clinton's impeachment took 5 months. I called my congresswoman today to relay my urging for Pelosi to begin impeachment this year.
I agree, Jeanne. It’s time to impeach Trump. Even if the Republican Senators refuse to convict him, the very process of impeachment will educate the American public...and that’s clearly what is needed now, especially since the vast majority of citizens are not reading the Mueller report. A lengthy, public investigation during the impeachment process can turn public sentiment and make it even more difficult for the GOP Senate to protect him. Look at history: a majority of Americans were against impeaching Nixon until the revelations turned the tide of public opinion against him.
Also, Saibh, I follow Elizabeth Cronise McLaughlin, too, and have supported her daily podcast through Patreon for several years. Elizabeth is an intuitive, a sharp legal mind and a fierce warrior in the Resistance. And I love the lawfareblog, deetoo.
I saw Elijah Cummings on the news (last Friday I think) and he was saying that they are making good progress on the investigations in the House, and if they begin impeachment all of that stops. Mainly, it's the stuff with finances. They recently had a judge rule FOR Deutschebank giving congress the bank records. I'm not sure how much longer the WH can continue to fight that legally. And NY state passed something that lets them share Trumps state tax records with congress.
Trump has been so furious about trying to hide his financials. And now we know Mueller didn't look at that stuff. If Pelosi can get her hands on it, it may well reveal illegal/damaging info that can be used not only to really help impeachment but perhaps even to get him to resign rather than have it made public.
*IF* they're waiting on something like that, and it's very short term, then the wait is good. But I don't know the details on where those things are at, or how likely they are to generate results soon. If he can just obfuscate until 2020 then yes, they should just impeach.
There were at one point lots of predictions on here about Trump's resigning. I still hold out hope for that. But they'll have to get his balls in an absolute vise before he'll do it.
Agree with you all. What a great community you are. Getting the financials would be great and might bring more people over to the side of impeachment but not if there is much delay.
Meanwhile Twitter is stalling and blocking. The momentum to impeach is now and the rethugs know that. I have no thought that the senate will remove him. They won’t. That isn’t the reason to impeach. The House simply needs to do their duty. They need to do the right thing. Mueller’s speech handed the Bar (pun intended) to them.
I completely agree with getting him the hell out of the white house, but first, they only have one shot at it and hes not getting removed by this senate. Also, if you do manage to get him out of office this term, there is nothing stating he cannot run in 2020 and get re-elected. If they do decide to impeach, their best strategic move is to let the impeachment run thru the campaign and the trial in the senate in the new senate term(if he get reelected). This way, if he does get removed he is gone for good and cant take a 3rd term. If they do it too soon, they run the risk of removing him only to have him back in 2020.
My congressman just responded to my letter demanding that the House begin an impeachment inquiry. My head is spinning from his spin. It was a very lengthy letter stating that ConDon “has carried out fundamental attacks on the rule of law and the system of governance established by the United States Constitution,” citing the Mueller report and how Congress should consider levying fines against and imprisoning incalcitrant witnesses who obstruct justice. He then got into the impeachment issue (which was the sole point of my letter). He stated that impeachment should be carried out in a “methodical and fact-based manner” – here comes the spin -- adding that during Watergate, it took two and a half years after the initial break in and five months after the Special Prosecutor indicted seven members of the Nixon Administration for the Judiciary Committee to vote on articles of impeachment against Nixon. Four paragraphs later, he ends with this:
“That is the task before us - which becomes more pressing by the day - to carry out an investigation into this President that is so compelling and so overwhelming that Congress is able to reassert its prerogative and rightfully condemn and punish Presidential actions that are in violation of the law and Constitution.”
So in other words – it’s NOT compelling or overwhelming enough for him? Is he friggin serious?!? I think I should ask him that in another letter.
Thanks for letting me rant a bit. Too bad I’m not a drinking woman.
I had one of the network news stations on today and found something interesting. They were using polling data showing how in favor/ opposed the country was regarding impeaching the president and compared it to polls regarding Bill Clinton around the same time in the process for him and how the country felt about impeachment then. They were actually VERY similar and NOT in flavor of impeachment.
HOWEVER, and this just boggles the mind, the data regarding the public's opinion on impeaching Trump was an ENTIRE month old. End of April data. GOOD GRIEF!! That is an eternity right now.
So, if that is the most recent data being offered, that might also play a factor on why they are not moving on impeachment yet. New data may show changed perceptions and should then make Pelosi more inclined to start the process. The country as a whole did not want to impeach Clinton even though they felt he broke the law per that old data. I don't think she wants a repeat of that situation.
Another thing to consider, just how is this data collected now compared to back in Clinton's time? The younger generation doesn't really use land lines and I don't often get polling calls on my cell phone. When I get them, usually around an election, it is usually on my land line.
I don't want him impeached so much as I want him wounded (politically). Death by a thousand cuts. An inquiry that, as MAS 1581 says, lasts a long time. Pelosi is a terrible spokesperson (as are most dems), but I do trust her. I think she's waiting for the financial stuff, from Deutsche Bank, and perhaps for some of the NY state investigations to bear fruit. Starting an inquiry too quickly and they'll be calls to wrap it up already. I think the best strategy is to keep it in the headlines as long as possible.
Lynn, youre completely correct. I understand everyones rush to get him out of there, and I do agree that quicker is definitely better. The problem is that an impeachment is not a winnable trial right now. To impeach with today's information is suicide. The senate GOP has their heads superglued to Trumps ass so tight they can see smooch biggest hemorrhoid(Mcconnell). For impeachment to pay off, you have to have enough public support that you cant lose the 2020 election, or have enough GOP support to get him removed. If you dont have at least one of those things, Trump gets off, fuels his base and garners a few swing voters, gets a great turnout, and wins(with more Russian help of course), while the Dems lose a few swing voters, and a few of their own go independant because of disillusion that the party couldnt get rid of Trump.
There is too much damning info close to release to make any move right now. Get as much of that info public as you can and try to get an overwhelming consensus of public support. Then let Dorito Supreme keep playing his tariff game and destroy everyones 401k while draining their wallet as well. His base will be forced to choose which they hate more-brown people or losing what little money they have left. Once you evict the vermin from the trailer park because they cant afford the rent, they will be scurrying to just survive and wont be able to go vote because they cant afford to(isnt it ironoc....dont ya think?)
That is when you impeach his ass and walk him out of the white house in cuffs.
Jeanne, seeing that Democracy will persevere and triumph, what do you see in the meantime? Will we see something big happen soon?
If they can get the financials soon then it will be worth the wait.
But—
1. FOX drowns out each publicized offense when they come in bits and pieces.
In a battle. An opponent can knock down each attack when they come bit by bit. That is how he has survived so far in spite of repeated crimes— molesting women, using campaign funds to hush up sexcapades, using a foundation for personal business, scheistering students with a spurious university, using his presidency to further his businesses, and repeated obstruction of justice.
An impeachment process will lay out the seriousness of his impeachable offenses all at once.
I think that many Americans don’t have a problem with many of the crimes he has committed because they take their cue from the GOP pundits as to how serious those crimes are. And the pundits knock them down one by one. Inch by inch the GOP erodes democracy until one day people wake up and it is gone.
Since people don’t read more than sound bites, they haven’t read how incessantly he obstructed justice. But it’s laid out in breathtaking blow by blow chronology in the mueller report.
Also Mueller’s statement (and Amash’s Town Meeting explanation) about why obstruction of justice is such serious crime, will be repeated over and over again during the impeachment. The hearing will show— Wake up, America, this man is stomping on your democracy!
2. I also feel there are moments of opportunity to get him that come and go.
This is such a moment because people were waiting for Mueller to speak. His speech was an apex of public attention. If they wait too long the tsunami of energy against him will dissipate and people will yawn when they try to resurrect a case against him.
I pray I’m wrong that the moment is now, since I see they are waiting and I agree that the financials could be critical. But I feel the time is now or very soon.
3. I don’t know if the Deutche Bank records will be enough although my cards say they will show interrelationships and possible money laundering. However Deutche Bank would do its best to cover the money laundering.
4. Finally when one of you mentioned the advantage of impeachment stretching into a second term I remembered my reading of his presidency into November 2020 where I thought he might have won the presidency but because of a possible blue wave in the Senate, he was loathe to continue. I can’t say for sure if there will be a blue wave, but I felt Trump scared about it in Nov 2020.
5. I know this post is too long but I also want to point out that there are certain conditions that analytical predictors have found can win a presidency and if they continue to be correct then so far Trump is winning. I wouldn’t care so much about their predictions except that I haven’t had a clear vision of a blue win for 2020 but I don’t feel it’s determined yet. At this point, if the analysts are correct, we need a major economic crash, a serious scandal, or a third candidate to split the vote to get voters to turn against an incumbent. If the details that emerge from impeachment can show the public the truth about this man, that would provide the scandal.
Enkasongwriter, good question but please open it in a new topic. Thanks!
I agree with you on most of that, Jeanne, but there isnt anything that the GOP hasnt already dismissed. Something new needs to come out and people need to be directly affected. Hes been shown to be a serial sexual assaulter, yet still got a huge portion of the female vote. Hes shown to be a draft dodger, yet has the veteran vote. Hes claimed to be one of the richest men in the world, yet still has support of the lower class. I can continue but you get the point. Farmers are starting to turn on him because the trade war is actually affecting them. Automaker are next with the Mexico tariffs. Americans, en masse, dont read Mueller reports and barely get past the headline in a news article. In the age of instant gratification, noone takes time to fully ingest all the facts-they just want one liners. Even in an impeachment hearing, no one will watch it. No one will read a transcript. No one will take in the facts. They will all just listen to whatever television media source they already watch and nothing said there will chance their opinion.
My mom always would tell me "revenge is easy. Just give them enough rope and let them hang themselves." This is the logic we need to use with Trump. He will isolate every one of his supporters in time. Let that happen and there is no chance he survives, even with his mob of cronies and Russia.