I just heard today on CNN that an individual at a Trump rally in SC mentioned a 2nd us civil war to a CNN reporter. If someone is willing to say that outloud and to a reporter that means it is something a subgroup of people are talking about. Has anyone seen this when scanning the US or in any predictions?
Never seen this in our future. I don't believe it will happen. There will probably continue to be violence at rallies and individual situations, which we've already seen may happen but no civil war. No one, but a small fringe in the Trump base wants a civil war. Also no one on the blue side would be foolish enough to start a civil war against the most well financed military in the world.
Glad to hear that. Thank you.
OK. What I am seeing is NOT a civil war, but lots of civil distrubances, (Like the Black Riots of the past) mostly directed by the Right, against the Left. These are organised, focussed, and part of the Hard line GOP/ Trump faction. They are supported by red state Governments, and populations. This is is meant to intimidate. They are meant to destabilise the rule of law. It is actually the "Stratergy of Tension" used by the Right in Italy, supported by the American Deep State, to destroy the left.It can and does work. Just enough to make the nightly news, and create a public atmosphere of fear and anxiety. Be warned. I see it, although at the moment, it is not going to be generic. Intermittant, and used to intimidate. Remember that 40% of Americans are rightists, and hard core. In local places, in hate states, it be double that. This is classic fascist strategy to seize power, subvert democracy, and intimidate the left/liberals/social and racial minorities. It usually works. Be prepared.
It is relatively common in right-wing and libertarian circles to talk about a possible civil war, it's been happening for years now. And I suspect the idea has been used covertly by arms manufacturers to increase sales.
I don't see a civil war in the US happening soon, but it's a potential outcome if WWIII breaks out and the US is on a losing streak. Much like the situation in Russia or Austria-Hungary during WWI or China during WWII. If that happens, the US is more likely to end up like Austria-Hungary, that is, broken into several separate countries, rather than Russia or China, devolving into a totalitarian state.
Thank you all for your responses. Tough times ahead.
I can see what Zoron is saying happening in Missouri; a preview occurred in Ferguson in 2015, when the state had a Democratic governor. Racism is virulent here, and the state government, which is presently all red, would provide a brutal response to protests. The tension isn't recent though; it's been brewing for a long, long time. If something were to go down in St. Louis before the Midterm election, it would probably end Claire McCaskill's seat in the Senate. I can see how this could happen in other states and negatively impact the prospect of blue Senate seats. The dry wood, the oppressive heat, the fear, the rage; they're all there. I feel ill thinking about it. There are many haters here; they have this odd sense of economic privilege married with economic insecurity, a total lack of understanding of their own racism, and a kind of Zombielike moral poverty relative to human difference. It's just very sad. What's to prepare? I can't run away from my family, my job, my home, myself. I'm where I'm supposed to be. I can't imagine owning a gun. What will come will come. I'm ready.
I hear you, Grace. That is what i am trying to do too. Be ready and make sure i am acting in a way that inspires others to treat all people with kindness. The hard part is treating those that i completely disagree with, with kindness. But i am doing my best to treat them with respect too.
While there are educators, medical professionals, psychologists, social workers, and many other college educated Missourians who serve others and who are Republican Evangelicals (especially in rural areas), many are not. African American youth from the urban cores are very similar to white youth from rural areas in their socioeconomic and educational disadvantage, and the burdens placed on them are significant. For example, the meth and opioid epidemics devastate families in rural areas and many youth pick up the task of caring for their siblings at a very early age. Democrats in helping professions see themselves as frontline workers in the trenches. Youth who parrot the racist and classist views of their parents and Fox news are in their classrooms and offices. So are those who suffer the effects of their impoverished circumstance.
The challenge isn't just to be kind; it's to open minds that are clamped shut with the force of a bulldog's jaws. The Black Lives Matter Movement lost the state's largest university 35% of its enrollment over the subsequent two years: African American youth wanted to avoid the overt racism uncovered there and white youth didn't want their peers to think they were racists when they expressed their opinions. The solution is to engage people in questioning their worlds, in moving beyond absolutist thinking, in searching for credible evidence to support their thinking, in perspective-taking … first steps towards any kind of understanding of the real challenges people who are different from themselves face in their everyday lives. I'm going to do my best treat others with respect and kindness, too, Alice, and sometimes it is a very daunting task. I guess it just boils down to looking at a large part of your life task being to just serve others to the very best of your ability.
My studies indicate that many of the people who are alive today are souls balancing out karma from the Civil War. We don't need to take up guns to see the divisiveness in our country and within our families. So many of our citizens fear the lose of their guns while we watch innocents die every day. Our citizens and politicians are now "fighting" for the civil rights of many. As during the Civil War, we are at a pivotal time in our nation's history--will our democracy survive?
Wendy, that is so true. People come back in groups. They find each other, even though they usually never realize that they have been in a group before. It can be a strange experience. But strengthening.
Wendy, I don't live in the States so I don't know for sure, but I would expect the karma of the American Civil War to be mostly balanced by now. It doesn't normally take this long. Not saying that there isn't anything left, but it should be mostly over.
What I sense is that your land is beginning to go through a destructive phase in its history, similar to the last one that was the American Civil War. It's part of the natural cycle of things, ebb and flow. It doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a civil war this time around, but it makes it more likely that the US will enter a period of conflict of some description, and wars of all sorts, including civil wars, are clearly a possibility.
Yes, agreed that we are cycling through a destructive period. Yet, in the US, we still have people who reenact Civil War battles in full costume. Many are still "fighting" over the appropriateness of displaying the Confederate flag. In the past few years, we've begun taking down statues of Civil War heroes and removing their names from streets and schools. Racism is alive and well in the US.
I met a man who had memories of that life time. He worked in a VA hospital that was built during the Civil War, and was haunted by a specific Civil War battlefield.
I realize that that is just a small example, but time is a relative thing and the ways of karma, as they say, are unfathomable.
I live in the southern US but I'm from the Midwest. I have noticed among a lot of people who have lived here all their lives a negative sort of taint to their outlook that seems to have come from the previous generations who were here during and after the Civil War. They have a quickness to anger over certain subjects. They may look at anyone not from the South as suspect and/or as invaders. They may feel sort of sense of loss they can't explain that taints their lives negatively. They expect certain old fashioned norms to be upheld, people are supposed to act certain ways, even if it is not genuine. They are masters at acting like they are genuinely nice (many of them really are nice) but it is partially a subconscious act they use to feel secure in their society. I really hate some of the conventions and colloquialisms here and I am uncomfortable a lot of the time. Many other people who transplanted here from up north have accepted all of these behaviors and find them charming. I think the civil war is still influencing them through the generations as they cling to their customs and their religion. Instead of clinging to slavery as they did in the Civil War they cling to these comforting reminders of the past. As Wendy has mentioned the civil war reenactments and the confederate flag are comforting to a segment of the population here. The extremity of their religion as being their particular flavor of Christianity--is perhaps seen as the only correct form of Christianity. I was invited to a friend's gospel music performance and went for support and out of curiosity. He is a native here and a Pentecostal church member. At the supper before the performance I heard a woman asking, "What will the rapture feel like? What will happen to our bodies?" Everyone was engrossed in eating and no one really answered her but this was the moment I felt really weird, like "why did I come here? I don't belong here!" feeling...but these people accepted me since my friend had introduced me around the place. Later he told me he was concerned for me since I had no family here and why didn't I join a church so that if something bad happened to me or my family I would have a church family to get me through the difficult times? He told me about personally taking part in the "talking in tongues" and how they did the poisonous snake handling as a show of faith in God's power to protect them. He was genuine in his beliefs and I could respect that. I did over time distance myself from him and we no longer talk anymore. I also worked with a young woman who was a native who expressed to me that her church was a big part of her life. She told me that she would be married soon and that her and her fiance had only kissed once or twice so that their wedding night would be special and that she wished she hadn't even kissed him so that their first kiss would be at their wedding. She was earnest in this and I just smiled and said nothing. It was really extreme to me to hear someone so repressed this way. Then she later refused to be in a car alone on a trip with a male coworker since it wouldn't look appropriate for her to be alone with someone of the opposite sex for so long. It was an important trip and our supervisor needed her to go but couldn't force her so it was abandoned. This could limit her career. It was surreal. The southern US is a place where some people want to be frozen in time, as if in amber, so that the rest of the world almost doesn't exist for some of them. I am giving extreme examples, most of the people are not so extreme, but it isn't that difficult to find and observe. If these people feel their way of life is threatened, they will fight to keep it, as it is all they have known.
It does feel like we're living during the Civil War, just in a different time dimension. There's no better example than Jeff Sessions' defense of the separation of children from their families with the same scripture used to defend slavery, “I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes,” Sessions said during a speech to law enforcement officers in Fort Wayne, Ind. “Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent and fair application of the law is in itself a good and moral thing, and that protects the weak and protects the lawful.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/06/14/jeff-sessions-points-to-the-bible-in-defense-of-separating-immigrant-families/?utm_term=.2a7c09f65ed8. Observing the insanity of people applying a specific interpretation of lines from the Bible to anything and everything and saying it's the Word of God is one of the most frustrating parts of living among Evangelicals.
I'm originally from NYC, but lived south of the Mason-Dixon line for 14 years.
During that time, I faced oppression due to NOT being evangelical Christian. I actually lost 2 jobs due to bias. Job performance reviews were always concluded with "The patients and families really like you, but your co-workers say you are too brusque and rude to them." The ONLY silver lining of being a working mom was that I was never questioned if I said I had to go pick up my sick kid or stay home with my sick kid - there was definitely a respect for moms, BUT I was always part-time or per diem. Any attempts I made to move forward n my career were squashed. (This is not just a Southern phenomenon, I know.)
I remember people throwing stuff and spitting at me, screaming "Go home, yankee!" when they would see my old license plate or hear me speak.
It's typical, upon meeting someone, for their small talk to start with "Which church to you go to?", which I always found to be an invasive question akin to being asked "Which toilet in your house do you prefer to poop in?". But to them, the answer is social currency.
And to this day NOTHING pisses me off more than when another (Southern) woman says to me "Well bless your heart!" (For those who don't know, that's Southern -speak for F*** you.)
I do not miss living in the South, not one bit. Cheers to those non-Southerners who endure it.
Laura I also don't like that particular southern phrase that sounds like it should be kind but so often isn't meant that way. I always think it is meant in a sort of pitying way (bless that poor stupid so-and-so). I was surprised when a black friend of mine here who is a church goer told me that she has an older male black facebook friend that supports Trump and believes the evangelical idea of him having a prophecy or biblical kind of aura to him. I was like "really???" She said many think he is a modern day biblical Cyrus...she doesn't agree with her friend but many evangelicals are convinced. I googled Cyrus and Trump and found this article from Vox:
I don't know if there could be another civil war but if there is one and it is evangelicals who love Trump against the "others" I need to get out of here quick...
The irony (among many) of Trump being a savior to evangelicals is that he almost completely fits the list of "anti-Christ" characteristics that they were always trying to pin on Gore, Kerry, Obama and even Hillary. It'd be hilarious if not for the real danger their ideology promotes.
That is a "go to" argument point for me whenever dealing with an associate (Facebook aquaintence) who espouses God/Church/Religion but supports Trump. I point out Trump's words and themes, compare them to Christ's, and then point out how they are the exact opposite of Christ's teaching. They are anti-Christ teachings.
Not one of them yet can counter it. They bluster, accuse, change the subject, but none can defend it.......likely because it is indefensible.
I'm aware that the North and the South of the US are different culturally. And the East and the West, for that matter. But differences, no matter how marked, aren't enough to cause a civil war. People need something to fight about. And so far, the only thing people are fighting about are left-right politics. To get to a civil war, you'd have to have something along the lines of a Republican president trying to get a Democratic state to do something by force, or some other similar situation. And I can't see anything like that happening soon.