I'm opening up a new topic on Khashoggi because the issue has shifted to the U.S. problem of Trump and Kushner's collusion with the Saudi Crown Prince. Feel free to reprint any posts you wrote near the end of the Khashoggi thread if it fits the direction this murder is taking for our country.
The Washington Post wrote this today about Kushner who they call the other Crown Prince. No accident the two young 30-something men have become friends. No accident that they are both grossly ill equipped to handle the power their fathers (in Kushner's case, father-in-law) gave them. And the consequences are grave for the world.
My read on Kushner is that he is mainly motivated by money and secondarily by hubris and naive foolishness. He's getting money from the deals he is making. And he's just foolish and naive enough to believe he can at the same time instantly solve world issues and become a hero for Israel. His wings will melt and he will fall like Icarus.
Mike Pompeo has finally mentioned possible sanctions on Saudi Arabia, only to say that they have to wait for evidence and it will be weeks before it's even technically possible to impose them. It sounds pretty different from the sort of things that get said when Russia is the target of sanctions. Especially since there have been so many stories about audio and video of the killing, you have to wonder how it could possibly be so hard to collect the relevant evidence.
And in the middle of all this, two Saudi sisters have been found drowned in the Hudson river in New York, with their ankles and waists bound together in duct tape... and the police reckon they somehow walked into the river and are treating it as suicide. You can't help but speculate whether some powerful people in New York are distributing money in order to make sure the police see things that way.
I don't see this leading to changes in either Saudi Arabia or the US government in the short term... but the damage has already been done. Lots of people have become aware of how toxic is this particular diplomatic relationship. The US is quickly losing all friends in the Middle East, with the only exception of Israel, and Israel is hated by most other countries in the area.
Where it comes to mythology, I wouldn't be comparing either Trump or the Saudi king with Daedalus, somebody renowned in Greek myth as a great inventor, like a Leonardo da Vinci figure for them. Besides, he did warn his son not to go near the sun. The Greek myth that has an eerie resemblance to the Khassogi murder is the one of Tantalus, that killed and cut his son into pieces and then served them in a banquet to the gods of the Olympus, but the gods weren't fooled. Or, if you are looking for a story of fathers setting their sons up for tests they are bound to fail, it's hard to find a better example than Genesis in the Bible. Any parent should know that "don't eat the fruit from that tree" is not very likely to be obeyed without being tested first.
This is really disturbing and I am sorry if I freak someone out here with this question. Somewhere in the back of my brain files, I seem to remember an ancient belief that by cutting up a body and scattering the remains, you can curse someone to wander the earth in the afterlife. Does anyone else know something about that? The story about the acid doesn't ring true to me. This does echo the killing of John the Baptist when Salome danced then asked Harod for John's head because he had spoke out against her father. Khashoggi had spoke out against the royals as well.
America's response to this is horrifying. We never held them accountable when it came out that most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi either. They have gotten a free pass from us ever since the '70s agreement to trade oil in US dollars and in exchange for security. That has kept the dollar strong and the real reason we have trade deficits. Tariffs aren't going to fix this problem. It's the oil money. Also this week, Natanyahu asked Trump not to do anything to Saudi Arabia over this killing. We coddle one set of terrorists while attacking the other bunch like Iran. It is all about the money.
Maria, do you mean to connect Khashoggi's murder with the Saudi sisters?
Holy moly. Edward Snowden is saying Khashoggi was tracked and killed by using Israeli spyware through his phone. No wonder Natanyahu asked America not punish the Saudis. ?
Another story on Snowden's claims about Khashhoggi's murder. Does anyone have a read on Snowden? Is he being used or is he speaking the truth?
It is now being reported that the CIA has determined that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman personally ordered the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, despite the Saudi government's denials that the de facto ruler was involved.
Wonder what Trump does now?
official.ordered https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/16/cia-determines-saudi-crown-prince-ordered-journalists-killing-washington-post
It is now being reported that the CIA has determined that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman personally ordered the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, despite the Saudi government's denials that the de facto ruler was involved.
Wonder what Trump does now?
official.ordered https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/16/cia-determines-saudi-crown-prince-ordered-journalists-killing-washington-post
Ha ha ha.
Just when you thought that the Trump administration couldn't go any lower, they find a way to reach a new level of moral depravity.
"The news concerning Fethullah Gulen came after NBC News, citing anonymous law enforcement officials, alleged that the Trump administration was looking for legal ways to deport the cleric in an attempt to convince Turkey to ease its diplomatic pressure on Saudi Arabia over the killing of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi."
Turkey has been demanding the extradition of Fethullah Gulen for years. The Obama administration always rebuffed those requests. Fethullah Gulen has lived in the US for a number of years and is a permanent resident. His only crime is his opposition to the authoritarian Turkish president. The Trump administration is so intent on helping the Saudis cover their tracks that they are willing to send this old man back to certain torture and death.
https://www.newsweek.com/who-fethullah-gulen-trump-administration-turkey-1219800
If there is a way to send him back(to his almost certain death) and get away with it, Trump will find it. That move serves a dual purpose for him-it chamges the subject from Mueller/Whitaker and also allows him to cover for his other owner besides Putin, the Saud family. All the talk was he was owned by Russia, but he is also bought by Saudi Arabia and business in China.