Marches are empowering for all who attend. There is nothing like the feeling of solidarity when you come together with hundreds of thousands of people who feel as you do. There will be kids from all over the country -- eastern city kids, mountain kids, California kids, southern kids and their parents, of course). It's a celebration of your beliefs and an experience of connection to a powerful collective. It boosts your optimism, reaffirms your faith in the future, it's healthy and happy and strong. I did the 2014 NYC Climate March and I'd count it as one of the best days of my life. There will be a lot of police protection. I don't know if there will be violence, but I have a generally good feeling about the march. Sending prayers that it will be peaceful, surrounding those kids with protection.
The big problem is why are things like this happening? We have had firearms before since the beginning of the country and yet we have had nothing like this in the past. Sure, there were things like mobster shootings, but nothing like mass shooting after mass shooting.
Also, to the myth that we know more today isn't going to cut it. We didn't get news on our mobile phones as we didn't have them, but we would get news of president Regan getting shot while at school on the intercom and I knew about the space shuttle blowing up from the news. We just get the news faster today and that's it.
I went to school in the 1980's. We didn't have lots of events like this. There were problems on the planet, but not like today, never like today.
Alas Jeanne,
It is, as it now is. Its a huge slow motion tragedy these days. Never did i think that I would see and experience what we are now enduring.
Scanning the mass shootings literature, you learn that because the NRA got the feds to ban Federal funding of gun research, the research is poor and confusing. The best information I could find is this study by Vox.
If someone can produce a study that helps us to understand this issue, please do.
When you are having this conversation, you have to distinguish between shootings that involve a gunman attacking a public place with people in it he doesn't know (i.e., Mass public shootings) versus violence against family members or gang versus gang violence.
1. If you are talking about public mass shootings, like Newtown, Orlando, Las Vegas, and Parkland, according to this Politico article, mass shootings in the U.S. have not gone up since the late 1970's but the number of victims has risen. (I couldn't find data going back to the 1920's.)
2. So why are more people getting killed in the U.S. per shooting now?
Answer: There are more consumer-grade easy-to-use semi-automatic weapons in use now. And they kill a lot of people at once, even if the shooter has no skill.
Also while the number of gun owners has not increased, the number of guns per owner has. The machine guns of gangster prohibition days are banned, but semi automatic weapons, like the very popular AR-15 are just as lethal.
3. Now about all gun deaths, not just mass shootings, which only comprise a tiny portion of gun deaths:
Does having more guns in the country cause more gun-deaths?
Answer: yes. It is the only statistically-backed explanation we have about why the U.S. has such a terrific gun-death problem. If someone has something to add, please do.
- Compared to other countries - the more gun ownership in a country, the more gun deaths.
- The correlation is almost perfect: for every 1% rise in gun ownership there's a .9% rise in gun-related deaths. More guns in a country = more gun-deaths in that country which also means many more people killed violently in that country. The US. has 4% of the world's population, but we own 45% of the world's guns. We stick out like a sore thumb compared to other countries. We also have six times the number of gun-related deaths.
3. The U.S. does not have more violent crime than comparable countries. The amount of violent crime here compared to other similar industrialized countries is the same. Sweden has more violent crime per capita than the U.S.! Also France, the Netherlands, the UK, Canada, Australia are the same or a little higher than the U.S. We just have more guns, which means more violent deaths, because guns make it much easier to kill.
4. The U.S. has six times as many gun deaths as comparable countries; and we have six times as many guns as these countries.
Also since1950, gun ownership in this country has soared, as have gun-related deaths.
Jeanne, that was an awesome post.
But the issue is now not going to go away. When Bernie runs, in 2020, I hope he has a positive message on this, against the disease of mass violence that is overwhelming the USA. Those Repug crazies in the senate and House, need to be put in the hot seat, regarding this one.
All,
I'm sending everyone here a huge blast of love and gratitude! I don't have time for as detailed a post as I'd like right now, but am reading and following this and the rest of the forum.
YogurtMaster, indeed, why. Why have these shootings become normal? Many reasons, but as Jeanne pointed out in a very detailed way "it's the guns, stupid"(a phrase common in the March community - not a comment directed at anyone here ) ?
Jeanne, thanks for your comments on organized marches. I've never participated in one and am looking forward to attending the March in Denver. I loved your post on why we continue to have mass shootings. I'll respond to the spin off post- hopefully later this week.
Zoron, I was rather hoping Senator Chris Murphy would run for President in 2020. He is a tireless advocate for gun control since Sandy Hook.
Many thanks and love to all!
Yes the data show that it does seem to be the guns that account for so many deaths, rather than some inherent violence in the U.S. over other countries.
The US is not more violent than other countries. It’s just more protective of the gun industry.
I'm hoping this thread isn't related to two predictions for April 2018 (but likely is related.....). I'm going to guess that Frannie's prediction about the big march is the March for Our Lives march. Heather's may predict something that happens as a result of that march.
Cleansing, people holding hands, linking arms, big march. (Frannie)
Something very shocking happens, people are very upset. Turbulent time. Civil rights being taken away from people who protest. We will not allow this! (Heather)
What I "fear" will happen is that some neo Nazis will get together and merge in with the students. They'd then instigate hooliganism (violence, looting, vandalism, etc) thus changing the narrative of the protest.
I hate coming from a place of fear. I can't tell if this is coming from my head or from my heart.
My own reaction to the predictions that others make is to stay open and loose. Usually they come true with particular limited events that make the news and awaken us further to issues we need to be aware of, rather than sweeping all encompassing change.
Last year there were two peaceful college protests (Berkeley and Middlebury) that turned rough where some outsiders came in and created mayhem. Then there was Charlottesville. In all three cases the authorities became more restrictive about protests out of concerns for safety. In no case did it lead to an overall censorship or martial law in this country.
We are a strong and feisty people. I have no doubt that there will be more attempts to shut down free speech and that the GOP and their oligarchs will seek greater restrictions of freedom but they will not be able to repress an irrepressible people.