@marigold I also have felt at times that an event was set on a course long before it happened, especially when it involves decisions. I've seen it in my own life. But is it true that everything is predetermined and when we see the future, we are tapping into the outcome of an event that was always going to happen, but that we find it easier to see as we get closer to that event?
Once when I was a young woman and grappling with a huge crisis that had happened to me and my own actions that led to the crisis, I was alone sitting on the edge of my bed just wrapping my head around it all and a voice came through that said first, that I would be all right, and second, that everything down to the tiniest detail is predetermined according to the laws of physics. I don't think I believe that, but those were the words coming at me from a strange far away voice.
@jeannemayell @marigold
Jeanne, I love your use of "turbulence."
It would take a lot of time and cogitation to respond thoughtfully both of your posts, but I just want to say, yes, yes, yes! A physicist rocked my world decades ago when he asserted in a lecture that all time is simultaneous. I suspect that our human brains may not be capable of grasping "reality" and the multiverse in all of its complexities.
Decades ago, the Seth Material (both the name of one of the first books and what I call all the collection of books by Jane Roberts) expanded my world view considerably and though I can now think of a few concepts that deserve some debate, the material was substantial enough to be accepted by, and permanently housed in the Sterling Library at Yale.
So, if time is an illusion, and there are parallel universes, then could one not only affect the future but also change the past? And perhaps a person can even chose a different trajectory into a different "official" future from the one a person is currently in?
I know from my own precognitive dreams, that sometimes we get warnings that offer us the chance to avoid negative outcomes, but to the question of the signaling of and perceptions of major future negative events, it would seem that collectively, we have chosen that event for some reason, though the reason may not be a good one.
As a child of six, I used to worry my mother because I became deeply curious about the meaning of life and what was "out there" in the universe. She was sufficiently disconcerted to ask my friends' parents to tell their children not to discuss such topics with me. But I gather that many young children have "psychic" abilities until the culture teaches them not to. Oh, and, yes, I have trouble focusing.
Do we create our own reality as Seth and probably a number of other teachers maintained? That and all of the other fascinating topics mentioned in the previous posts have occupied my thoughts throughout my life. No doubt many others on this forum could say something similar which is one reason I treasure this virtual companionship.
PS Marigold, I just discovered Carlo Rovelli!
PSS The big question I want answered from the Global Mind when I transition out of this earthly realm is why humans must suffer-- the earthquake in Turkey, wars, famine, etc.? Of course, I am merely the trillionth person to ask that question, but I want it answered!!!
@jeanne-mayell @raincloud @marigold
I love this topic of discussion! Such a fascinating one to me, and like others here, hard to wrap one's head around. When you first posted this and tagged me, I did a quick search and came across a blog post that described time and space as follows:
"When people think that celestial changes or seasonal changes associated with the Earth's position around the Sun are time, it's like thinking that a fish swimming in an aquarium is water. In fact, a tank is like space, and water is like time. Water fills the tank, and it's everywhere. If it wasn't, the fish wouldn't be able to move and would be dead, despite all the space in the aquarium.
Time itself is neither linear nor circular. It does not flow or move but allows others to do so. So the cycles we observe have nothing to do with time, except that time will enable them to exist. Time is attached to each part of space, forming a space-time continuum, and as everything moves, vibrates, changes, it is related to the fact that time is a dimension that allows change, and spatial dimensions enable things to be in different places. When these things change position, it's because time allows it to happen. No time, no change, no nothing."
I thought it was an interesting analogy. It basically matches the idea that time is all around us and all "timelines" exist simultaneously.
I also love your discussion of the Global Consciousness Project (I remember you mentioning that a few years ago.) It makes total sense and it is so fun to see data to back that up.
Your question about paying attention is an interesting one -- I am not sure if I have trouble paying attention to smaller things, but rather, when I am distracted by daily stressors (practicalities, current problems, etc.) I find it hard to relax enough to take the broader perspective and perception that often allows those visions and predictions and sensations to come into my awareness. Does that make sense? Once things calm down or if there is a breather, it is much easier to throw cards or ponder and perceive less "solid" things.
I will say it again - love this discussion and look forward to reading more replies!
@jeanne-mayell I lOVE this thread! Sources of info on this complicated subject welcome. Have read Raden … and am aware of the Consciousness Project measuring computer reaction prior to large global events, etc… anyone have other suggestions? Wish I could find a class in it! Monroe? Or IONS? Humm.
@freya I taught his project in my Intuitive Way classes that I think you may have attended! Years back, I ordered a four dvd set about the Princeton Engineering graduate program where it was first created. Fascinating. I would be happy to explain that project to anyone who wants to know.
I think Coyote would have loved this conversation and would have definitely participated.
As for me, I am really enjoying it.
I am also trying to imagine fish water and aquariums in a new way thanks to @cc21.
@jeanne-mayell thank you for reminding us of the Consciousness Project.
@rainbow, your pondering reminds me of the t.v. show Timeless and how they kept going back in time to try and save their original timeline.
This discussion also reminds me of the Mandela Effect. While I believe people can claim things are Mandel Effects when they are instead simply confusing similar yet different facts and events, I have definitely experienced a few Mandela Effects myself. It makes me wonder how a timeline simply changes and alters some basic "facts" which no longer are true
"When people think that celestial changes or seasonal changes associated with the Earth's position around the Sun are time, it's like thinking that a fish swimming in an aquarium is water. In fact, a tank is like space, and water is like time. Water fills the tank, and it's everywhere. If it wasn't, the fish wouldn't be able to move and would be dead, despite all the space in the aquarium.
Time itself is neither linear nor circular. It does not flow or move but allows others to do so. So the cycles we observe have nothing to do with time, except that time will enable them to exist. Time is attached to each part of space, forming a space-time continuum, and as everything moves, vibrates, changes, it is related to the fact that time is a dimension that allows change, and spatial dimensions enable things to be in different places. When these things change position, it's because time allows it to happen. No time, no change, no nothing."
What a great analogy. The earth is spinning 24 hour light cycles (towards the sun, away from the sun) and at the same time we are orbiting the sun, falling into it bit by bit. And because we so egocentricallly think that the universe is just the sun and the earth, we think that our orbit is time, i.e. minutes, hours, days, years. But it's just marking our position in this big fish tank relative to the sun. That's all. We age as we orbit, but aging is not time. Meanwhile we are just a spec in the universe, as is our sun.
Perhaps when my colleague Pam felt three months in advance the shock and wonder that she felt when the Boston Marathon bombing happened, it was because the event made such a big wave in the fish tank that we felt it? (To be in Boston during that time was so crazy weird. We were told for a full week not to use the highways. They closed the roads so they could catch those guys. We were stunned by that. Pam lived on the same block as the shootout. So she was seeing her own future too when she exclaimed three months in advance, Nobody's going to understand any of this!" She didn't even know what "this" was! Little did we know that we were in for more stunners with Trump's fascism followed by Covid when the nearly the entire world shut down.)
Then there are the knowings I've had about climate change, many years in advance, that have come true. I felt those were unconscious calculations I was making from feeling that they were simply closer in the fish tank than science was predicting. I could feel how close they were.
Sometimes it feels like I have a different kind of calculating system in my brain than othe people. Here is what I mean: when we are walking down the road and seeing a car coming towards us in the distance, our brains actually create triangles to calculate how far they are from us. We estimate their true size and see how small they look and create a geometric equation in our minds ot figure out how soon it will take the to reach us. Animals do this calculation too, some with remarkable accuracy.
When I first started reading climate articles 15 years ago, I knew climate change was coming much faster. I knew when they said one foot sea level rise by 2100 that it would be more like 20 feet and greater-- 80 feet -- in some places. I just knew. I must have one of those geometric calculating systems in my visual imagination that sees that that that future is closer than others are calculating.
@lovendures I was thinking of the show Timeline, too! We loved that one. Yes, you wonder what history or facts that we take as 100% true may have possibly been altered??
@jeanne-mayell Really interesting way to look at how you perceive the timeframes in your visions. A triangulation that you just have in that perception that allows you to "know" with certainty that it will be a certain way. I like this idea of reflecting on our own "perception systems" and comparing to how others perceive. Sometimes it is similar, but usually a unique-to-each-person system that we learn, with time and experience, to understand. Probably why it makes it so hard to quantify or measure in a traditional study.
Watching TV psychics before I got involved with this group, it is easy to say they are making this up or it sounds too vague. But after having seen what everyone here does and taken your class and analyzing how I am receiving/perceiving makes me realize we all are trying to interpret in our own context.
@jeanne-mayell yes please … a more detailed review of Princeton’s consciousness project would be very interesting to me.
Inattentiveness and intuition
Some of you have told me you have been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD and wonder if it's due to being especially intuitive or some pathology or broken part of your mind that requires medication or treatment. There are many different underlying processes in the body that result in a diagnosis of inattentiveness.
If you got an ADD or ADHD diagnosis, your medical professional would have taken it from DSM-5 (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 2013 Fifth Edition. You can find a summary of the latest version of the DSM-5 here - ADD DSM-5 Summary from CDC, although it's just a summary and incomplete).
While the DSM is useful and derived from extensive research, it pathologizes you. It interprets symptoms you may have as brokenness. So beware of pathologizing yourself because believing you are broken is harmful and undermines you and leads to strong medications which you may or may not need.
Again, the DSM is an important tool, and worth reading, but consider what it doesn't say: it omits the possibility that when you are not paying attention to the teacher or the book, you are actually paying attention to something more important that other people are not seeing.
My theory about ADD and intuition comes to this:
Ask yourself, what are you actually paying attention to when you think you are not paying attention?
The mind is always paying attention to something. So you are paying attention to something, just not the words that someone may be saying to you or the lines in the book you are reading. Just because a child isn't listening to the teacher doesn't mean he is broken. (now someone here is going to get upset and say that many children are helped by the ADD diagnosis because they get the drug that helps them pay attention). I'm not against the DSM or drugs, but consider a more holistic perspective than assuming the problem is with the child.
We have antennae picking up waves of consciousness from the environment. Highly empathic intuitive people are busy picking up waves of consciousness from near and far. Their minds may be busy sorting out and prioritizing the most important signals they are getting, and tossing out or archiving the less important.
1. If you are both intuitive and highly empathic:
Intuitive empathic people may be unable to hear words coming from someone who is actually not emotionally present while they are talking. The intuitive empathic person may be instead focused on what the speaker is actually feeling inside while they are talking.
Example: the tour director for the travel tour I was on last fall was talking to us non stop throughout the tour. I started picking up her sadness, even grief, and how disassociated she was, that there was a lot going on inside her emotionally while she was talking to us. I found myself tuning out her lectures and instructions and hearing her underlying issues.
At one point, I was staring at her as she was giving us instructions about where we were going to meet the next day, and after she finished and asked if we had any questions, I asked her where we were going to meet the next day. Another, judgmental woman on the tour, stared at me, feigning disbelief, and rolling her eyes at me and said so all could hear, "You're kidding, Jeanne! She just told us that!" At first I was embarrassed, and turned my body away from her. But then I realized that while the tour director was speaking, I was focused on a louder signal from her -- that she was in grief about her life. We later spoke and she let her story spill out. She never wants to go home because she discovered that her long time partner has affairs and she is saving up for a home of her own and a way to leave the relationship. But this grief was so strong to me that I tuned out her words to us.
2. If you are both intuitive and dealing with trauma. The mind constantly prioritizes what signals it's going to hear. You might be focusing on processing your trauma, or some important truth you are picking up that helps you heal and so you wouldn't able to process less important information.
3. Forgetfulness: Brain hygiene is important. You need to constantly clear out and trash or archive less important signals and data coming in so you might think you are just too absent minded when you are attending to important work.
Compare a creative intuitive mind with someone who has a photographic memory and never forgets anything. I've known people with photographic memories who lacked common sense. They have too much data inside. They don't know how to throw out or prioritize less important data. Whereas some highly intuitive people notice the important data.
Finally, I learned long ago that prisoners and CEO's both have a higher incidence of learning disorders than the regular population. Prisoners and CEO's. People who could not navigate mainstream living and people who became leaders have this same quality in common. I don't know how that breakdown with ADD/ADHD diagnoses,
but for me that data means that some people who have exceptional wiring that can make it harder for them to manage in life. But if they can manage that exceptional wiring, they can become leaders.
Also the human psyche is immensely complex, affected by nature and nurture, ie., by genetic pre-disposition and environmental factors. So there are no simple rules here. That said, I know that there are ADD/ADHD people out there are who gifted not broken. Also the schools have long pathologized and drugged gifted children rather than pathologizing the education system and finding a way to teach them properly.