The Great Turning P...
 
Notifications
Clear all

[Closed] The Great Turning Part 6

(@laura-f)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1966
 

@allyn 

Huzzah! With you on all counts.

And I find the imagery (cheeseburger, etc.) to be quite the cheer-me-up.

Thanks!



   
PamP, FEBbby23, Lauren and 7 people reacted
(@allyn)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 427
 

@tgraf66

No, that's not what I mean!  I am saying that if Trump runs overseas and stays there, there is no way he can realistically run for President.  How is he going to campaign?  How is he going to conduct rallies?  One could even make the case that he would run afoul of certain state laws that would allow him to be put on the presidential ballot.

Could he run via social media?  Nothing prevents him, but how do you get independents to vote for you if you can't be bothered to put on an appearance?  

I think the country is suffering from severe Trump fatigue.  If Trump was abducted by aliens, vanished in the Bermuda Triangle, etc., the Trumpers will spout conspiracy theories for the rest of their lives whilst the rest of us (about 68%) will thank God that he is gone or restrained in such a way that he can no longer do harm.

Personally, I am sick to death of these so call Trump supporters threatening violence every time we turn around.  They don't realize it, but every time they do so, they build a case against themselves to where any law enforcement officer who kills them can easily claim self defense.  

Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.  While I don't foresee Trump getting mowed down by a radical Democrat group, I think the hatred he has stirred up in his victims will ensure that he spends his remaining years being hounded by investigators.  He will never leave us in peace and will only ensure that he will get no peace.



   
Share, PamP, FEBbby23 and 21 people reacted
(@laura-f)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1966
 

This is a good article that explains classified vs. unclassified documents, and the different levels of classification it also describes how multiple laws appear to have been broken as they pertain not only to classification, but also to national security and presidential documents in general.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/8/14/2116479/-The-truth-is-that-Trump-s-discarding-and-hoarding-of-documents-just-might-be-pathological?detail=emaildkre2&pm_source=DKRE&pm_medium=email

It also lays out how the search at Meh-duh-Lardo was above board, and how the FBI could not have planted any evidence.

@allyn - your last rant reminded me of a line from Fiddler on the Roof. Tevye says, "May God bless and keep the Czar... FAR AWAY FROM US!"



   
Share, PamP, FEBbby23 and 13 people reacted
(@lovendures)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4091
Topic starter  

The Great Turning can take a great amount of time.  

50 years ago, Native American Sacheen Littlefeather went on stage at the Academy Awards and refuse the Oscar on behalf of Marlin Brando who had won for his iconic role in The Godfather.   He refused the award because of how Native Americans were treated at Wounded Knee which is why he asked her to make the speech that evening.

The Academy will formally apologized to Littlefeather next month.

"The abuse you endured because of this statement was unwarranted and unjustified," former Academy president David Rubin wrote in a letter to Littlefeather. "The emotional burden you have lived through and the cost to your own career in our industry are irreparable. For too long the courage you showed has been unacknowledged. For this, we offer both our deepest apologies and our sincere admiration."
Littlefeather will appear at the Academy Museum of Motion Pictures next month to discuss her history-making Oscars appearance and the future of Indigenous representation onscreen, the Academy said.
 
In a statement, Littlefeather called the upcoming event, during which she'll receive the apology in person, "a dream come true."
"Regarding the Academy's apology to me, we Indians are very patient people -- it's only been 50 years!" she said. "We need to keep our sense of humor about this at all times. It's our method of survival."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/15/entertainment/sacheen-littlefeather-oscars-apology-academy-cec/index.html



   
Jeanne Mayell, PamP, Unk p and 19 people reacted
(@lenor)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 644
 

I just saw Brandon Van Grack the DOJ prosecutor who prosecuted Manafort and Flynn and he said that the passport issues is all NOISE from IQ45 to distract from the really serious issues. If by chance the passports were collected, all the idiot has to do is have his lawyer call DOJ and it will be returned since there is no court order against the orange blob traveling. Lie to distract and incite. Then repeat again and again. Van Grack was on Rachel Maddow.

CBS news is reporting the the FBI stated that they did not have the evil one’s passports. Lie to distract and incite.



   
PamP, Lauren, 2ndfdl and 16 people reacted
(@peepo)
Active Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1
 

I am a Democrat but I think of the few people left in the other party, Liz Cheney was one who stood to the things that are right for the country. How does her defeat affect the November 2022 results? Do we still see a blue wave and a democrat president in 2024?



   
PamP, Kateinpdx, Lauren and 4 people reacted
(@polarberry)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1082
 

@lenor 

I couldn't agree more. Every day on the news, headlines like, "Here's what T thinks about...." or "This is what T plans to do if...." STOP giving him the media attention he craves. I don't give a sh*t about what he thinks or wants or does. The ONLY news stories about him should be about his many crimes and updates about how he and his minions are going to be held accountable.

The only Twitler headline I want to see is "INDICTED ON MULTIPLE COUNTS."

 

 



   
PamP, Share, November and 36 people reacted
(@Anonymous 1233)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 238
 

@polarberry Am hitting the like button on this 20x.  It may be the equivalent of a tear drop in the ocean, but every time I come across pundits/experts on social media who post TFG's BS, I respond with "Stop spreading his message, you are making things worse."  



   
Share, PamP, November and 29 people reacted
(@elaineg)
Famed Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 402
 

@theungamer This is why trump won in 2016. The media talked about him constantly. Giving him free air time.



   
PamP, Dracaena, TriciaCT and 19 people reacted
(@Anonymous 1233)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 238
 

@elaineg Absolutely!



   
PamP, Lauren, Vesta and 5 people reacted
(@polarberry)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1082
 

Thanks, Un.

Like the NYT and the now-infamous headline about how investigating him, FBI sees no clear ties to Russia. Give me a break; guy's been a Russian tool for decades. And they're still pushing the BS about a 2024 run, ect....SHUT UP about him. Stop trying to present him as a viable candidate and treat him like the joke and traitor he is.

 

 



   
PamP, TriciaCT, Kateinpdx and 17 people reacted
(@herukane)
Prominent Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 65
 

So President Biden has many achievements to his name and I was wondering what people think, feel, sense, on the element of him canceling student debt for many/all/most people in America. He has till the end of this month to either extend or cancel or announce its back as it was. 

Also, talking about the great turning, I think this is totally a major feature of that - 

 

May be an image of 1 person



   
PamP, TriciaCT, Kateinpdx and 13 people reacted
(@laura-f)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1966
 

@herukane 

So far he has only cancelled student debts in a very targeted way, mostly for those students who took loans to pay for for-profit colleges (predatory colleges, in other words). To date he has not mentioned that there will be any student loan forgiveness for anyone else, especially those who paid for public colleges.



   
PamP, TriciaCT, Lauren and 4 people reacted
(@dannyboy)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 957
 

I've mentioned before that of the things I can do, I've spent a great deal of time trying to influence two voters in particular - one of whom (my mother) is pretty much a lost cause to me.  I've doubled up on my brother however and may have had a breakthrough today.

My brother is a high level executive in the medical industry and pulls about 3 times what my wife and I make combined.  He's single, never married, never will marry (he is high maintenance!) and has spent most of his adult life as the sole Republican in our family, at least until the Trump years.  (My half-sister was always Christian Evangelical but the rest of the family was solidly D until Trump)  He did recognize 1/6 for what it was and being in the medical industry - spent the better part of the last 2 years being vilified much like I have been as an educator most of my adult life by these people.  He now considers himself what I was prior to the Trump years, a moderate independent.

He has read the science on climate change and has actually spent a great deal of money going green.  He's put solar panels at his house and barn property.  He has, as I have been doing, replaced most of his outdoor power equipment with EV versions of things.  And - he's been on the waitlist for a Nissan EV as his primary vehicle for some time.

Today's text exchange back and forth was irate about the Inflation Reduction Act - primarily because of the income caps.  Basically, he's not eligible for any more tax credits for additional solar panels, or for EVs because he's over the income threshold.  He was exceptionally irate about this and one of his texts this morning read: "Well - I have created quite a paper trail on my EV per the IRS guidance on IRA - and if President Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. tries to f### me on my rightfully due $7,500 tax credit with his 87,000 new IRS auditors, the government is not going to enjoy the ride…"

This was quite the unexpected thing to wake up to today so I waited a bit but we had some back and forth whereby he continued to pontificate about how he holds grudges and wouldn't vote D again if he doesn't get his tax rebate.

I finally shifted the narrative a bit.  I explained that I was for student loan forgiveness even though I probably wouldn't see a penny of it because of my own income threshold (PSLF wont be an option for me because I can't afford to pay the Income Driven plans and the graduated plan I'm on doesn't count on PSLF - sure I can get credit right now for what I did pay, but future years wouldn't count) - that I was for it because of how many people it could help, and at the end of the day that's better for the country overall.

I then stuck to one response - that I'm a single issue voter from now on.  I told him I'll do the same amount of mental gymnastics our sister has done her entire life claiming to be a caring Christian who ignores the bible entirely to contort herself in circles to vote for people like Trump.  My single issue is simple.  I will not vote for a fascist because that's not what I want my daughters to grow up living.  I reiterated it's really easy to identify who the fascists are right now because they all have an (R) by their name.  Another rip on taxes, another reply from me about how - for the sake of his nieces, I would not vote for a fasicst - and that if he didn't like his tax rate now, he'd hate it under fascism.  

After about an hour of back and forth on this we actually hit a patch of common ground that I built from and the conversation ended in a much better place.

Framing it from the "Yeah, I'm uncomfortable about X, Y, and Z too - but the big picture is the type of country I want my daughters - your nieces - to live in" and it suddenly seemed to work.

That said, if an IRS agent goes after him I pity the fool lol.  But today I made some progress toward bringing my brother a little further up the spiral.  Our mom and our half sister are lost causes, but my brother might just join us yet!



   
PamP, November, TriciaCT and 20 people reacted
(@dannyboy)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 957
 
Posted by: @herukane

So President Biden has many achievements to his name and I was wondering what people think, feel, sense, on the element of him canceling student debt for many/all/most people in America

I don't see a stroke of a pen canceling it for everyone via E.O.

But I don't "not" see him signing bills passed by congress into law if we can build our majority in the Senate.

Guys - believe this social studies educator who has spent a lifetime studying and teaching the Constitution and U.S. History and politics to students and adults.  The power to cancel everyone's debt via E.O. is an overreach of the executive branch, will be challenged in court, and would not be upheld even if we had not had 3 supreme court seats stolen from us.

The EB's duty is to enforce the laws - he's right to steer clear of the issue, no matter how much Senators Schumer, Sanders and Warren want him to do it for them.  The E.O.s that have paused payments exist because of ongoing international emergencies and he'd be right to extend it further.  And the cancelations that have happened fall under policies put in place by several other administrations all of which exist for specific reasons (predatory for-profit colleges, Title violations, etc)

Congress on the other hand can legally pass this in a number of ways.  Those ways would still be challenged, but the likelihood of them being held up in higher courts is much, much higher.

The gray area is a $10K reduction.  Possible?  Yes.  Likely?  Honestly don't know.  Legal under powers of the executive branch?  Less concrete.

 



   
PamP, November, TriciaCT and 16 people reacted
(@herukane)
Prominent Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 65
 

@dannyboy Yeah I noticed that as of now all his cancelations have been in the clear cut cases of fraud or corruption or issues. Its been a lot of money and for a lot of people, but its not blanket. 

I can see him continuing the extension while working to find more hanging fruits that he can pluck in ways that don't cause problems. He has been very careful to do things that don't cry overreach. Everything he has done has been strategic and I see this as that as well. 

I could also see them finding a way to put it in the government spending bill. They work that way too - putting parts of things in other things that won't cause issues. 



   
PamP, Jeanne Mayell, deetoo and 14 people reacted
(@dannyboy)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 957
 

@Herukane And I'll add one thing to my last post re:  Student Loans.

If we end up with a new "Manchin and Sinema proof" majority in the Senate by picking up enough seats to moot them, there are about 100 things that need to be passed the second the filibuster is demolished, and not one of them is student loan cancelation.  

In fact, no one use the bathroom until voting rights pass the senate.  And women's reproductive freedom.  



   
PamP, Jeanne Mayell, deetoo and 20 people reacted
(@unk-p)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 1012
 
Posted by: @dannyboy

My single issue is simple.  I will not vote for a fascist

i love you, Dannyboy.

 

 

and i had totally forgotten that President Joe's middle name is Robinette- gotta keep that in mind next time i get a new cat, or start a new band



   
PamP, Jeanne Mayell, deetoo and 23 people reacted
(@laura-f)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1966
 

@dannyboy

Bravo on the work with your brother and family. Well done. Keep it up!

Thanks for fleshing out further details on student loan forgiveness, that is my understanding as well.

@herukane

Putting student loan forgiveness into budget reconciliation might work BUT the Senate Parliamentarian has been striking down other things as "not being relevant to the actual budget" and therefore the bills are not even allowed to be rewritten.

Parliamentarian has way too much power lately. @dannyboy - your insights into why none of us heard of this office/person until recently would be appreciated.



   
PamP, Jeanne Mayell, deetoo and 15 people reacted
(@dannyboy)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 957
 

@laura-f The Parliamentarian is an interesting role in that it actually isn't super interesting to the layperson and is one of those things that most of us don't really know we actually do know about.  (Like - the House has one too!)

There are so many rules and precedents, and it's the role of the Parliamentarian to know, study and advise on these.  We've only had them for about 100 years and the current one in the senate is the sixth one.  Have a question on precedent?  They know the answer.  Have a question on procedures? They've got your back. Want to know if this new rule you want to impose contradicts something still on the books from the 18th century?  They know.  Want James Madison's recipe for unleavened bread?  It's somewhere and they'll find it for you.  I may have made that last one up.

One thing to note - they can be fired (and have been in the past) and they can be overruled (and have been in the past) but that's one of those things that is very rare.  Their knowledge is rooted in the history of their chamber and if they're telling you something won't fly - it's best to trust that.  These are the history nerds that history nerds want to grow up and become.  They know what they're talking about.

This is old (in the scheme of things, January 15, 2020, feels like two decades ago) but gives a great, easy to read and concise overview: https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/blog/who-is-the-senate-parliamentarian-and-what-does-she-do  



   
PamP, Jeanne Mayell, deetoo and 17 people reacted
Page 27 / 31