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[Closed] The Great Turning Part 6

(@laura-f)
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@dannyboy I use this gif ALL THE TIME!!!

Good choice.



   
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(@five81993)
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Actually the term terrorist would be more accurate for Bannon. He's the opposite of an Anarchist. Noam Chomsky is an anarchist or more accurately an anarcho syndicalist which he describes in this way--

For Noam Chomsky anarchism is a “constant commitment to nonhierarchical models of political organization and his hopes for a future world without rulers.” Anarchism challenges power: “Any form of authority and domination has a burden of proof to bear; it has to demonstrate that it is legitimate, no matter what it is…if it can’t demonstrate that it is legitimate, it ought to be dismantled”  (Noam Chomsky Anarchism 1).

We have had something like anarchism briefly in the American tradition: “That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…” (Jefferson). However this was never added to the Constitution as the "founding fathers" were interested in codifying their own power.

One purpose Chomsky sees for anarchism:  "Because if power is in the business of teaching us how to be good consumers, if power is in the business of keeping us down, if power is in the business of teaching us how to vote against our own best interests, then what is the opposite? The opposite is: how do you promote creativity? How do you promote people’s ability to think for themselves? How do promote people’s understanding of their connection to the people around them in ways that are going to benefit themselves and their environment as opposed to just allow them to have more power." 



   
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(@lovendures)
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@dannyboy 

Your Michigan race thread is classic!

Thanks for providing us with such great entertainment.  It could be an SNL sketch for sure. 

One thing I appreciate about this site is how we can all learn about each-others respective states and their local issues. I have an even greater appreciation for your governor after reading who is running against her.  She has been put through a great deal and I hope her victory is a resounding endorsement this November.



   
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(@ana)
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I just heard a few hours ago that Ivana Trump has passed at age 73.  Heard that and nothing more, and I haven't searched for info in order not to bias my intuition.

  Does anyone have any "vibes" about that?  The first thing that entered my mind was that she died of shame.  (Which could really happen, if all that is happening caused her great stress.)  Then I wondered if she had been "offed" to keep her from spilling what she knows, which is probably a lot. Mostly I am intuitively leaning towards the first explanation.  

(Nevertheless, I am thinking Marla Maples ought to watch her back.)



   
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(@raincloud)
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@five81993 

Golly gee whiz, as one might say in the old south... Great post. Thank you. You have inspired me to know more...

Iridium, we have consistently underestimated the nefarious goings on in the Repub. neighborhood so who knows? I laughingly suggested to my friends this evening that maybe she left to avoid testifying...Realistically, I can't imagine that she knew much about the Jan. 6 debacle but then I have failed to imagine a lot of evil activity.

It is now in the news that a cardiac arrest is the cause. Shame suggests a conscience. Stress?



   
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(@laura-f)
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@ana 

Ivana was a narcissist also, albeit not nearly to the level of the orange $hitgibbon. I find it hard to believe she died from shame or stress.

Cardiac arrest means just that - her heart stopped. It can be from a number of causes. My mother died in 2021 from sudden cardiac arrest-no real history of heart disease. She had had an electrolyte imbalance, was in the hospital where they remediated it and said she was stable. They sent her home, and by the next morning she had died. I suspect she neglected routine medical care because of the pandemic. Oh, and she was also a narcissist.

I also don't think she got "whacked" - she never really kept secrets after all, she probably didn't know all that much about the dealings of her kids and ex.  She got a handsome divorce settlement and lived in luxury without having to be married to Twitler.

My intuition is telling me this was just natural causes, nothing more. When I read TFG's statement, what popped into my head was that he actually felt a bit of sadness. Or if intuition fails, Occam's razor works just as well - the simplest explanation can be the best one.



   
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(@journeywithme2)
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@raincloud I have to say... found at the bottom of the stairs??? 73? My spidey senses are tingling.... 



   
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(@ana)
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Posted by: @raincloud

...Realistically, I can't imagine that she knew much about the Jan. 6 debacle but then I have failed to imagine a lot of evil activity.

It is now in the news that a cardiac arrest is the cause. Shame suggests a conscience. Stress?

I think there's a good possibility she knew more about the plans for Jan. 6 than we may realize.  Reportedly, TFG sought her advice even during his "presidency" and he could have run some of his nutty ideas by her to get her input.    She may have known what he was thinking of doing.   And surely she has info on shady dealings he was involved in back before-- some of which might be relevant to the situation or at least could provide some grounds for prosecution for other crimes. 

Shame-- true-- it does suggest a conscience.  But stress could have contributed to a natural death, if that's what it was.  She must have been concerned about any legal fallout for her children, and she still cared about the well-being of TFG as indicated by her concern when he had Covid.  



   
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(@allyn)
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@journeywithme2 

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't  Trump and his kids supposed to do depositions in the NY case today or next week?  I understand that they are being continued due to Ivana's death.  Knowing Trump's aversion for truth or legalities, I wouldn't put it past Trump to have Ivana killed just to delay the depositions.  After all, delaying justice is something Trump excels at.



   
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(@journeywithme2)
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@allyn You are not wrong.. they were due to testify... under oath ..all 3 of them this week coming up, which has now been delayed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/depositions-of-trump-and-two-children-delayed-due-to-ivana-trumps-death-ny-ag-says/ar-AAZCfFx

It is, rather convenient timing, is it not? Rather like Epstein's "suicide" don't you think?

Cardiac arrest? is the event that occurred when her heart stopped beating.. the question remains.. what caused that.  As I said... my spidey senses are tingling.



   
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(@laura-f)
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@allyn 

I just don't think he's smart enough to have known that ahead of time. Ivana was always about the money, and given that she is the mother of the 3 primary kids (sorry, Tiffany!), I find it more likely he would just throw more money her way if she threatened him, rather than have her killed.

Cardiac arrest is very hard to reproduce in a murder scenario. As far as I know*, there are only 1 or 2 things that have to be injected either intravenously or into the heart itself to cause it to stop without leaving a trace. If it was a murder, I think we would have seen a drug overdose, or even an actual fall down the stairs with head trauma as the cause of death. NYC coroners do not have the reputation of being inept or corrupt. 

I love a good conspiracy murder as much as anyone else, but I neither see nor feel that is the case here.

*From my extensive work watching lots of murder/detective non-fiction AND portraying both a murder victim and a murderer on one of those shows myself.

ETA: Epstein was murdered, clearly, but the coroner can only report that he died by strangulation, whether it was by someone else's hand or his own would have had to be addressed by the police, who are corrupt pretty much everywhere nowadays.



   
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(@lenor)
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@laura-f

Ivana didn’t die of a heart attack. The ME just announced that she died of blunt force trauma to the body from the fall. It was declared an accident. 



   
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(@laura-f)
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@lenor 

Aha. Well that's a different story then.

I still don't feel it was intentional, but that finding certainly does open the door to other speculation.



   
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(@ana)
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Posted by: @laura-f

@allyn 

I just don't think he's smart enough to have known that ahead of time.

Likely not, but he's got some smart and ruthless minions who could have done it on their own initiative.  And now it looks like it was from a fall down the stairs, if the "blunt force trauma" turns out to be consistent with that.  



   
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(@laura-f)
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@ana 

To clarify: what I was referring to is he couldn't have known for sure the AG of NY would continue the depositions to a later date, as they are not required to do so.  I was not referring to Ivana's death.



   
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(@tybin)
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Ivana had hip problems but refused to go see a Dr. She also supposedly pled with DJT to stop the “bullshit” once violence broke out on Jan 6th. That all comes from the NYPost Murdoch rag.

 

I keep thinking about how she once said Trump raped her but then took back the story. It was during the divorce and I’m sure he threatened she would get nothing. I don’t know how those three kids ever reconciled that in their brains. 



   
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(@isabelle)
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@ana 

I believe the medical examiner has determined that she fell down the stairs and died of physical trauma. May have been a pure accident although supposedly she was observed to have had trouble walking which makes me wonder if she didn't need hip replacements? Could also have been precipitated by a sudden cardiac arrest which led her to falling down her staircase? Just a few observations:

(1) I wonder why a frail older woman with 3 adult children and 10 grandchildren was living alone? Where the hell were they? Why did she not have round the clock care?

(2) It's possible she was ashamed at how her ex-hubby had mistreated this country and the great honor he had been given by being ex-POTUS? The January 6th Insurgency marks T and his minions as obvious traitors to this country and their criminality was shocking. It was generally observed that Ivana was brighter than T and she may have grasped this and felt ashamed;

(3) Didn't someone on this website  predict that T would fall down stairs and suffer trauma? Too bad it was Ivana and not T;

(4) Ivana was not my favorite person and Mary Trump's book painted her in an unflattering way. Still, this death is tragic. All that money, conspicuous  consumption, gold leafing,  social climbing and a sizable family...and the woman died alone in her home.  Breaks my heart a bit actually...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



   
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(@isabelle)
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@ana 

I believe she was alone and her home was double locked from the inside so a building staff member had to force the door open. No, based upon what I am reading I see no conspiracy here: just a tragic accident of an increasingly frail woman who was unaccountably left alone too long and clearly needed help. 73 years old is not that old these days...but newspaper accounts said people who knew her stated that Ivana had visibly aged this past year, whether due to the pandemic and/or T's criminality. Her family should feel ashamed to have left her alone when she was clearly so frail.  Yes she appears to have been a narcissist, mired in nouveau riche, superficial values and probably not a nice person and quite dismissive of "the little people" a la Leona Helmsley...still, she was a committed mother to her children and a committed wife to T.  This is a tragic end for anyone to suffer. I wonder if T even really cares?



   
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(@polarberry)
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@dannyboy 

It's like a bowl of candidate Froot Loops that gets shoved under the couch and forgotten about for a week. Bloated and revolting.

Seriously, where does the KGOP find these people? I guess the crazies know they have a safe haven in the lunatic asylum the republican party has become. 

Golden genitals, my my. How special.



   
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(@polarberry)
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@unk-p 

🤣

Politically incorrect Barbie.



   
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