Our re-opened society and a new normal post-covid

@dannyboy 

that trick no longer works - even in incognito mode.

@Laura-f That's weird - I can get it on my Mac but I just tried on Safari on my iPhone and nada.

Dislike.

@laura-f Thanks for this!!

@laura-f 

My sympathy. I, too, am a traveling soul who is restless. I am scheduled to fly to Italy with a group of old friends in October so we are on the same risk-evaluation path. The suggestions I have are not based on intuition so I would welcome anyone's perceptions/hunches as well.

First, traveling is risky, as you know. I don't know how long your flight will be but, so far, this is my plan for our group some of which you have already considered.

1. Wear N95 masks and also eye protection like clear protective lens. Masks must fit well; look for NIOSH certified. I think the accordion ones fit better and are easier to wear for a long time.

2. Most passengers will remove their masks to eat or drink. Try not to do that. We will try using straws to shove under masks and some sort of protein powder to mix into a drink. Do not remove your mask in any restroom.

3. If you can, sit together on the plane to avoid close contact with strangers.

3. Avoid indoor dining and wear masks in any public setting.

It is easy to be outside in HI; getting there safely is the challenge.

Finally, if anyone in your group gets COVID (unlikely to have symptoms until you are home), try to get to an Oahu medical center rather than be treated on Hawaii. I don't know how one would do that, but that is my suggestion.  There is also COVID specific insurance, if you are interested.

Good luck.

@laura-f Oh damn.  It is impossible to copy and paste because it's interactive. It is so cool though and I just wish you could see it. They show how the air filtering system on single aisle commercial jets work.  Then they show what happens when someone with Covid sneezes behind their mask. The purple in the photos are the aisles affected by two different covid-infected people sneezing behind masks. 

@jeanne-mayell 

Even this is helpful. We are 4 people, so we can take up 2 rows one behind the other, and then looks like not terrible if you are at least 3 rows away from the sneeze. I have one real medical grade N95 that I've been saving, and I can add a plastic face shield over that.

I feel a little better.

Any intuition popping up?

@laura-f At the airport, stay some distance from those eating places and bars.  When lining up, I force people to socially distance from me by dragging my suitcase behind me. If you can breathe, then double mask. The top mask can help to seal the one underneath. I had to travel Bos to Tampa round trip at the beginning of February 2020. No one was wearing a mask except me. But I just knew Covid was around. When I got into my seat, I pulled my coat over my head and napped the entire trip.  I was wearing a mask and in my own little tent. No one was vaxed back then, so now that you are vaxed, you will likely be okay if you are very cautious. 

@jeanne-mayell 

thank you, and btw your typos made me giggle ;-)

@laura-f Aw, I can only tell you about our recent travel experiences.  My husband and I made a trip to Santa Barbara in May and wore KN95 masks in the airports and on planes.  It was very worrisome that everyone takes off their masks at the same time to eat and drink.  Seriously, doesn’t that defeat the purpose of masks?  However, we traveled safely in May.  

Now there’s the delta variant and we just cancelled our reservations in Vancouver Island, British Columbia for next month.  Even though the border between the U.S. and Canada opens shortly, we became concerned about leaving the country while the pandemic rages on.  Our friends had booked a trip to Ireland and Denmark, then Ireland was listed by the CDC and the State Department as one of 16 countries to avoid because of Covid infections.  So they had to cancel their trip.

We have neighbors who are in Hawaii right now and having a great time.  I’m hoping we are through the worst of it by October, Laura.  That’s the only premonition I have.  I’ve read that the delta variant raged throughout India and then suddenly dropped.  I’m not sure the scientists have figured that out.

Wishing you the best, my friend.  I know how important travel is to you and I miss it too.

@laura-f

I went on a plane in May and again nearly 2 weeks ago.  They were very short flights of about 1.25 hours. My experience was vastly different each time.  In May there were few flying and the airport was empty. This most recent time I found myself in an extremely busy airport and totally booked plane.  My gate and the 2 gates beside mine were all boarding at the same time and people were on top of each other.  Most wore masks as they were supposed to but some had them under their nose.  I felt mostly fine on the May flight with only some people on it and a nearly empty airport. I was uncomfortable with the crowded flight. I would not want a repeat experience of flight number 2 even though the people were pretty calm and kind.  Just way too many people.

A month ago we drove to Colorado and had a fantastic trip staying in my parents condo.  I felt really good about that experience.  My kids flew there to meet up with my husband and I and they had no problems flying, well except their planes were each delayed.

Now that I personally know a good friend who has a husband dealing with a serious breakthrough case of Covid I am back again to being very cautious.  

I think driving would be my first choice for travel currently. 

Covid is so tricky.  I have no idea what next week will look like let alone 2 months. Do we know if planes will be required to keep the mask mandate past September yet?

@laura-f 

Ugh, the sneeze video is sobering. I like the coat over the head idea, though.

In terms of N95s, Michael Osterholm, MD an epidemiologist (and hero, in my view), who consulted with the Biden administration regarding COVID and who also has a podcast, says that N95s are pretty much the only safe masks. For a while they were difficult to come by and very expensive but no longer. They can be purchased on line and even at  a variety of stores like Walmart but again, look for NIOSH certified and make sure they fit your face.

Purchase more than one because you will need to "clean" the masks you wear; if you are in public, the masks can have viral particles on the outside. Put them in the sun for several hours or, according to the man that invented them, put them in the oven at 165 degrees or on low, for 10 minutes. He came out of retirement during the worst of the crisis and volunteered his time to figure out how to help health care providers reuse masks during the shortage.

One early strategy was to cut a section of hosiery to pull over your head like a balaclava. One would look like a bandit but it forces the mask against the face creating a good seal.  See the link below..

My travel group is alert and flexible. We cancelled last year's trip but Italy, having been ravaged, has impressively strict guidelines so I am not worried about being there, just getting there and back. Italy also requires COVID testing in advance of the trip even if vaccinated; I wish all airlines would require the same.

https://lobbyistsforcitizens.com/2021/02/16/cdc-new-guidelines-for-wearing-masks-pantyhose-on-your-head/

@bluebelle @lovendures @raincloud

I believe Hawaii is also requiring pre-flight testing regardless of vaccine status, I will double check.

Even though the tests are not 100% accurate for breakthrough infections (one of the cases I know they tested negative twice and positive only on the third try), that's helpful too.

The flight is 5 hours and I made sure to book non-stops to reduce risk of further exposures to more passengers.

I am leaning towards NOT cancelling and hoping that Delta dies down quickly as it has elsewhere, and I think Lambda will not get here significantly before the end of the year.

Also, there is a fair chance of booster shots happening before October too.

And then something that has just come to light:  my husband is having some heart issues, and if he requires surgery or anything, we'd be able to cancel and use the insurance for such a medical issue. (It's not an emergency, and we'll know more in a few more weeks, past the cancel deadline.)

Anyone else who wants to weigh in, please do - more minds make for lighter work!

Found the link to Hawaii travel requirements, in case anyone else is interested. Looks like they just started allowing vaccinated folx to enter without testing, but everyone else is supposed to get tested. Hmmmm.... given the number of fake vax i.d. cards, this does not inspire as much confidence.

https://www.gohawaii.com/travel-requirements

Posted by: @laura-f

@jeanne-mayell 

thank you, and btw your typos made me giggle ;-)

I know, me too! I just noticed it.  According to me, you  were both  faxed and taxed.  Fortunately you were neither maxed, nor, god forbid, axed, nor waxed.  

@jeanne-mayell And neither of us is lax, so there's that.

So here's the thing.  Our society re-opened, but it isn't actually Post-Covid time.  It is "Ride the Covid Wave" time. The wave keeps cresting and falling and right now there is a huge crest.

You would think most local governments would adjust accordingly, many don't.  If you live in a city which currently requires a mask mandate, you should be very grateful they have one. 

I actually think the upset over masks and non masks and vaccinated and un-vaccinated is growing bigger here in AZ.  

And then their is Texas.

My teacher daughter will be going back shortly to a her elementary school.  She will not be allowed to enforce a mask mandate this year per her GOVERNOR'S orders .  Virtual education has been banned by her governor also so parents can't keep their children home.  There is no longer any social distancing at her school. Her class sizes may go up to over 30 kids.  She teaches elementary music so she sees the entire school population. Teachers will now be required to use their sick days if they have symptoms to quarantine or test positive unlike last year where they were allowed extra Covid days.  It has been discussed on teacher social media boards that many will not get tested and will go to work with symptoms because they can't afford to not be paid.  They have been told there will no longer be contact tracing at her school.  The only help against Covid will be sanitizing measures.  

I mentioned there was an AZ elementary school that recently went virtual for the 5th and 6th grades because there were 53 reported Covid cases since school began 2 weeks ago.  They aren't allowed to require masks like TX but they have contract tracing and allow for Virtual ED if need be as in this case. 

Can someone please explain what a state gains by having all of these horrible mandates?  How does it benefit a Governor to ban masks in an Elementary School where children can not yet receive a vaccination???

Posted by: @lovendures

Can someone please explain what a state gains by having all of these horrible mandates?  How does it benefit a Governor to ban masks in an Elementary School where children can not yet receive a vaccination???

Two words.  "Freedumb" and "libberdy" 

@lovendures 

I am so sorry for you, your daughter, for the students and staff in that, and every school in Texas and for all Texans. Insanity in action. I wonder if the governor could be sued? If there is a teacher's union, it would be worth investigating. Even a criminal charge like wanton endangerment would make sense to me, but then we are talking about Texas, the state that most resents any limitations; it is the dark side of freedom.

Sending warm light to you and your daughter.

@raincloud 

Thank you!

Texas law does not allow for unions. Neither does Arizona.

The elementary school in AZ I just mentioned as having 53 cases of Covid on Friday, now has 64.  

Our State Universities may not (by Law) require masks or vaccinations either, nor may they require random or not so random Covid testing.  They may not ask for a student's vaccination status either.  

I hope both Governors are able to be sued.

Some of our school districts are defying Governor Ducey and mandating masks anyway.  It is time for some "good trouble" and I am happy they are taking up such an important "good trouble" cause.   

Ducey is unable to run for another term so I am not sure why he is being the way he is.  Abbott I believe is running again.

I am not one to call someone evil simply because I am upset with their actions.  I can find no other word for their actions however.  There is no compassion or love shown in their actions.  The community they govern certainly isn't better off and there is no economic downside to requiring masks in a school, especially where children are too young for a vaccination. 

So, it is what it is.  

It is evil.  

They know what they are doing and they know it will cost the lives of many.  Their cities burn and they fiddle. Nero wouldn't be more pleased if he did the fiddling himself. 

We should not be in the place we are right now as a society.  Not now.  Not with what we know and with what we can do.