Wow Allyn, first of all I didn't know you were a female! ?
You wowed me with your intelligence and witty responses to T supporters. I will keep this and save it as my ace up the sleeve for any T supporters who say this crap to me (because they do). I truly appreciate you and how you respond to them. It's true, watching Fox news would help me "arm myself" more but I truly can't stand doing so. Just hearing the lies and seeing T makes me want to vomit. I'm glad you have the stomach for it. My husband actually does that too, so he's "armed" as well. He has so many T supporting friends and business associates he must keep up with what they are seeing so he knows how to respond to them.
I guess I'm much more emotional so my thoughts get clouded when a T supporter comes at me. I let my emotions take over instead of remaining steadfast and clear which is why my brain and mouth don't always function when it comes to a response. When I was younger I didn't have this problem as much, as a matter of fact I joined the debate club in middle school and early high school argued for a pro-choice stance. Post menopause brain has set in and has made me less able to debate like I did at one time. Additionally, my anxiety and disdain for everything involving T and the corrupt GOP has made me very upset. I agree we must stand up for what is right.
Thank you for your wonderful response! I will save it. ? ?
You are welcomed! But please know that I can't stomach Fox News either. Sadly, they seem to be on the TVs in every waiting room here, so I have learned to deal with them. But while I do get outraged by the lies they tell, I try to imagine them in a courtroom, and I am arguing a case against them. This helps, because I can see them as "attorneys" (aka-they probably can't stand Trump either, but they represent him and thus must regurgitate this B.S. because, as attorneys, it is their job to tell their client's story to the jury, no matter how stupid it sounds). Trying to see Fox News in that light makes it more tolerable.
Like you, I also get emotional about Trump. That is why I have prepared these comments in advance so they are ready when a Trump supporter gives me trouble. When emotions run high, it is good to have a back-up plan (pre-made response) in advance so I can turn the tables against the Trump supporter and use his own tactics against him.
In one major way, Fox News is better at preparing it's viewers for these arguments because they give their viewers clear, concise talking points that they just repeat over and over. CNN, MSNBC, and other news groups don't do that, thus leaving their viewers at somewhat of a disadvantage when dealing with a determined Trump supporter.
For this reason, I encourage everyone on this site to look at some of the points (aka "lies") that Trump supporters use and come up with pre-planed counterpoints. Or you can use some of mine. Because I guarantee that when the election comes closer, the Trump supporters will be out there to hassle anyone and everyone they can into submission via intimidation. Now is the time to use their own tactics against them. No, I don't mean seeking out Trump supporters and getting into an argument with them. But they will approach you and try to bombard you with their lies. They win when you roll your eyes, walk away, or stay silent. They think they won, and it only encourages them to do it again and again. Onlookers see this, and they too feel intimidated. This is classic bullying behavior.
Now, many Trump supporters are not so keen to engage me in a battle of wits. They know that I am prepared with my own responses, and that I will actually use their own values against them when I do so, which leaves them feeling venerable and unsure, so they walk away. That is why I enjoy taunting Trump and comparing him to a "bratty teenage girl" whenever he tweets, especially when I am arguing with a male Trump supporter. They tend to think of themselves as "macho" and thus the ultimate definition of masculinity. But when I point out that Trump doesn't have the guts to confront someone face to face and instead turns to social media to vent his rage, Trump's followers have to deal with the fact that Trump's actions (in their mind, at least) are very similar to the behaviors of a teenage girl who is using Facebook to turn all her friends against another girl. The Trump men can't reconcile the two, and thus are left with the uncomfortable visual image I have left for them. They then have to ask themselves that if Trump is so manly, then why can't he fight his own battles instead of getting on social media and calling for his friends to help him. That is not something they would do, so why would they support Trump when he does it?
While I somewhat hate doing this (I am uncomfortable promoting stereotypes of genders in any form), I feel that this is one of the only ways to get my point across. By taking their deep-seated values and using them in my favor, I leave them emotional and confused, so they no longer engage me. Further, any onlookers are left feeling that anti-Trump supporters are stronger, so they naturally gravitate to the strong and thus are more likely to vote that way. It isn't a bad thing, necessarily, that people vote for the stronger position, because people naturally gravitate towards the ones that they feel have the most support (so not as to be considered outsiders). But we have to demonstrate that strength in a dignified and yet firm way in order to counter Trump and his supporters.
I hope you take heart and use some of my suggestions when you are next confronted by a Trump supporter. Remember, this is your country too. You have a right to express you opinion too. The right to free speech does not mean that we have to endure lies simple as a means of respect for those who disagree with us. Trump supporters have used our kindness and respectful silence to their advantage. Therefore, they have made it a liability to be kind and respectful. Only by making them afraid to look like fools and refusing to back away just to feed their sense of self-entitlement will we be able to break their power, and push Trump and his supporters back to the darkness of society where they belong so that we can finally get to work to repair the damage they caused.
Take care and good luck!
Thanks Allyn, wondering what do you say when they say nasty things about Obama. How he was one of the worst etc. (which my response is usually to tout his accomplishments and how lovely and intelligent and caring he was). They seem to always say how bad, how bad Obama care is etc. Wondering what you say about him?
Thanks Allyn, wondering what do you say when they say nasty things about Obama.
Hi TriciaCT, I know you didn't ask me, but I've been all around and back again on this one, so hoping it is okay, I'd like to add my two cents.
I say nothing, nada. I leave the conversation. If it's an email to me, I delete it and do not respond. In the past, when I've responded to these kinds of remarks, I have been very sorry that I did. The outcome was always dark. We are grappling with darkness and it pulls us into it.
If it's in person, I ignore it. If they continue speaking, I say "Stop." That's it. One person I've known for years who loves me and who I love once said to me about my politics, "I am just so disappointed in you." I ignored it. They did not continue. But when someone close like a relative or old friend keeps going on the topic, I tell them to stop, that it will harm our friendship. If they don't stop, although that has never happened with a close relative, I leave the conversation. If their friendship is not important to me, it ends there. Either way, I do not respond.
Your "2 cents" is ALWAYS welcome. ? Yes that has been my typical response and one that I generally employ. However, the past couple months I had two females who I am close to want to engage me in conversations (we've discussed this here before) and I reacted like you did. I chose not to engage, however they "threw" their thoughts at me anyway. I want - if this happens again - to be "armed" at least with something to say because I am tired of just shutting down the conversation entirely with these two particular ones.
I typically react like you suggested, but there's a part of me that has always run away from things that hurt or annoyed me and I do have a breaking point. I want to (with words only) fight back since I feel like I'm fighting for what's right and I can't understand how they can be so blind and ignorant about what is right in front of them that is causing so much pain to the entire country - let alone the world.
And like you, if they don't stop I will just let them go. Surrounding myself with light is more important to me. ? ?
posted by @jeanne-mayell,
I say nothing, nada. We are grappling with darkness and it pulls us into it.
@jeanne-mayell, I agree with your response to those who try to hook you. I will admit, though, that my temptation is to fight, but fighting isn't an option for me. I have health issues and limited energy reserves, so I refuse to deplete myself by engaging in an argument with a die-hard T supporter. So it's more out of self-preservation.
@triciact, I understand the post-menopausal brain. PMB plus a chronic autoimmune condition often creates major brain fog when I speak. I can communicate well through writing, probably because I can take the time to formulate my thoughts and arguments.
That brain fog, and the fact that I live in a blue area of Virginia, makes it easier for me to not engage. I am almost always exhausted, so I don't have the energy to debate. The most I can muster is an eye roll (? that's for you, @laura-f!) Those deluded T supporters will choose to believe what they believe, no matter what you say. They may feel the sting of your argument, on some level know that it's true, and shut them up for the moment, but they'll hold on for dear life to that sinking ship.
Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if I was living in a predominantly red state. (Most likely be a hermit -- which coincidentally fits into our lives right now!) For those of you surrounded by all of the T die-hards, I admire your ability to maintain your sanity, humor, kindness and grace. God bless all of you.
@jeanne-mayell is correct. When I have family members and close friends who love Trump, we have reached an understanding that we do not talk politics. Period. If they do, I cut ties (I have done this to one person who refused to stop after various warnings because he was trying to "educate" me.).
But I am not talking about family members or friends. I am talking about the flag waving, gun totting, idiots that you barely know (in my case, it is usually because I represented them or their family members). As I said, my home is 95% Republican, and there are a few prominent families who are Democrat. Therefore, once they learn my last name, they automatically assume I am part of one of those families (which is true), so they automatically know I am a Democrat and thus become a target.
So...what do I do? Change my last name? Disown my beliefs and family? Move away from my home?And for what? To appease a bunch of people who are trying to be argumentative with me? How would they feel if I approached them in a supermarket and started making fun of conservatives? I have the right to be in whatever party I want to be, so I will engage in battle if need be.
Believe me when I say that I tried to turn the other cheek and ignore them. I truly did. But they kept coming back. They took my silence as shame for my beliefs and fear of them, which further encouraged them. And then I learned that by mentally preparing responses for all their talking points in advance, I could put them on the defensive. Now, many of them avoid me and/or are respectful when they speak to me. Those who have watched my exchanges have told me that I have a dry, sarcastic sense of humor that breaks down their Fox New talking point. By being funny and causing people to laugh at them, they feel a taste of the humilation they try to inflict on me. So they stop, because they know I won't passively accept it.
As to your question about Obama, here are a few responses for the most common Obama related complaints:
1. Obamacare is ruining this country! It is forcing us to buy insurance! It's Socialized medicine!
Oh, yes! The idea that an insurance company is prohibited from denying insurance to someone based on a pre-existing condition is so awful! And the idea that everyone should get insurance so they pay something in? How terrible!
But seriously, you object to everyone buying health insurance (and if you don't, you pay a tax penalty), but you have no problem whatsoever with the fact that you are forced, by law, to have car insurance when you drive? How does that make sense!? If someone who doesn't have car insurance drives and wrecks, then everyone else has to pick up the tab. Further, it is a crime in many states and can cause you to lose your license. So how is Obamacare any different? Everyone uses the health care system, so everyone whould have insurance to make it easier for everyone else! And it isn't even a crime if you don't do it!
And as to socialize medicine? Should we get rid of all social programs? Including social security? Because there isn't that much difference between the two! So if you want to get rid of all socialism, you better be prepared to get rid of your pension too!
2. Obama is the reason why we are suffering right now! He left us unprepared for the virus!
Uh...Obama actually left a task force for Trump, and Trump decided to cut in in 2018. Further, Trump has been in office for almost 3 and a half years (although sometimes it feels it has been much longer). Are you telling me that three and a half years wasn't enough time for Trump?
Explain to me again why you think Trump would be better at revitalizing the economy once the pandemic is over?
3. Obama is (insert whatever insult or lie here).
Seriously, what is with you Trump people and your obsession with Obama? Do you harbor an obsession with him? If that why Trump dyes himself a shade of orange so he is dark like Obama? Because I got bad news for you. Trump's shade is so awful that it looks like he tried to paint his face for a Tennessee Volunteers game, but made a mistake with the paint shade and used lead paint, which has made the effect permanent.
Look, you don't have to pretend! We know that Trump secretly loves Obama. No one would obsess more over a guy they barely talk to. But Trump doesn't have to act all coy and pretend he hates Obama. He doesn't have to insult Obama to get his attention. Just tell Trump to be honest with his feelings. We'll understand. And it's not like he is faithful to his wives anyway!
(I used this argument once and caused a bit of a ruckus. The store clerks were still laughing as the annoying Trump supporter stomped away muttering obscenities under his breath while I looked round innocently and asked "Why is that guy upset? I just said I support Trump in his attempts to woe Obama?" The clerks now know me by name and say high every time I enter their store.)
I hope this gives you something to work with. Or at least a laugh over my ever-eternal battle to bring "love and understanding" to Trump and his supporters.
And if that doesn't work, look up my postings concerning SADS (Small and Abnormal Dick Syndrome). I have already sent a letter to Trump asking for him to admit the problem, get himself "fixed" (I offered to do a donation for a pair of solid gold manicure scissors, as they would be big enough to do the job), and then declare his birthday (June 14) as National SADS day.
At the very least, you will ensure that the Trump supporters you talk to won't be able to get what you said out of their heads, and it helps tarnish their perfect mental image of Trump. It is a small and thankless task to deal with rabid Trump supporters, but it is also a bit of a guilty pleasure. ;)
Wow. Great rants with excellent points! Love it! Although I need a bit of a lie down now... ?
Namasté
Always an enlightening pleasure to read your brilliant posts! I can see why you are an attorney... I would definitely like to see you in the Senate ..?
It seems that Drumpf has fallen so far down the dementia rabbit hole, he can't even convince his rabid followers of his lame ' DARVO ' games at this point. Where is that little ol' straight jacket anyway .....
I have a fav T-shirt emblazoned with ' You Have The Right To Remain Radical! We Still Have A Damn CONSTITUTION '
It raises a few eyebrows .. hehe ... tho I just smile and walk on....
Wow. Well said Allyn! I also like how you brought a humorous slant to it. I wish I had your wit. I will put these points all away for a rainy day (in case I must engage but hope not to). Thanks again.