Colin Powell's Death, The Iraq War, and the Harmful Mistakes

Posted by: @jeanne-mayell

Sad about Powell, who was vaccinated. I would like more information about the activities of people who have breakthrough covid cases. 

Powell was immunosupressed from multiple myeloma.  He also had Parkinson's disease.  https://news.yahoo.com/colin-powells-death-doesnt-challenge-efficacy-of-coronavirus-vaccines-173102331.html  

Posted by: @jeanne-mayell

Sad about Powell, who was vaccinated. I would like more information about the activities of people who have breakthrough covid cases. 

it is sad, when anyone dies unnecessarily.  Like the (one million? two million?) people who died in the Iraq War.  And now Mr. Powell will have all of eternity, to explain to each and every victim of that war, why, exactly, he chose to lie to the American people to get them to support mass murder by the State.

@unk-p  I remember that about Powell, thanks for the reminder. I remember he looked uncomfortable when he lied about the war. The London Times had  published an article that members of Parliament who had met with the President's team returned to London and reported in private meetings that Bush, Chaney, and Wolfowitz were "making a case" for war.  That they were lying because they had no evidence of weapons of mass destruction.  One of the those Parliamentary emails was leaked to the press.  All that happened, along with other evidence that there was no case for war, before Powell stood up and just lied.

@jeanne-mayell i am constantly amazed at how many "Christians" will idolize known liars.  It is as if they haven't even read the "infallible" book that their religion is supposed to be based on:

Proverbs 12:22 – The Lord detests lying lips, but he delights in people who are trustworthy.

1 Peter 3:10-12 – For whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit;  let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.  For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers.

Exodus 20:16 (From the 10 Commandments) – You must not lie.

Proverbs 21:6 & 8 –  A fortune made by people who tell lies amounts to nothing and leads to death. …But the conduct of those who are not guilty is honest.

and especially this:

Proverbs 6:16-19 –  For there are six things the Lord hates—no, seven: haughtiness, lying, murdering, plotting evil, eagerness to do wrong, a false witness, sowing discord among brothers.

I cannot begin to understand the life Colin Powell led, the people and circumstances he navigated, and all he had to consider before making decisions that would ultimately be judged publicly.  Unlike most, he owned his mistakes on Iraq publicly and regretted his vote for it.  When I die please let the first words that pass everyone’s lips be about how I tried rather than how I failed. 

@theungamer i think my last few posts sounded too judgy, and i would like to go back and edit them, we all make mistakes.  but i still hold that it is a major problem when someone in a position like his would not try to err on the side of peace for a change

Just a note about Powell - yes, died of COVID complications, yes was fully vaccinated, but the media failed to report that he had been struggling with cancer for quite some time. I find the mainstream media to be more irresponsible than ever, because this type of reporting causes unnecessary panic and does nothing to calm the sh*tstorms around vaccination.

@unk-p I understand. Thank you. Overall it seemed that Powell lived a life of integrity.  Expressing regrets for his choice indicates to me a conscience and I respect he was able to own the error.  I can't help but wonder what it might have been like for him to live knowing he had a part in the loss of life.  So many of our appointed and elected officials continually make decisions with little concern of the impact to the public.  Even death to them seems like no big thing.  I'd like to think Powell was in a better league.

@unk-p @ungamer I've been thinking about Powell.  I was always sad about him.  I knew he knew going to war was a mistake. He didn't want to do it. I just knew it intuitively from the look on his face when he was standing up and making the case for war.

The New York Times did a story this morning on Powell's regrets about the war. He was right that many will not forgive him, however, at least he was sorry and admitted his mistake. I have a harder time when I think about the New York Times reporter Judy Miller, whose pro-Iraq War articles they promoted to front page at that time.  She gave Hillary Clinton and John Kerry and many democratic politicians the rationale to vote for the war even though those people knew it was false. Judy Miller made the case for war to boost her career, and as far as I know she was too narcissistic to realize the harm she caused. 

Powell made the mistake of his career about the war, and the saddest thing was that he was against the war but could not face up to his President to say no. He knew that if he refused to go along with it, he'd have to resign and he did not want to resign.  He later publicly said he was voting for Obama and Biden,  but for many it didn't matter, because of all the lives that were lost due to his complicity.   The Back Story of Powell's Case for the War 

Posted by: @theungamer

I cannot begin to understand the life Colin Powell led, the people and circumstances he navigated, and all he had to consider before making decisions that would ultimately be judged publicly.  Unlike most, he owned his mistakes on Iraq publicly and regretted his vote for it.  When I die please let the first words that pass everyone’s lips be about how I tried rather than how I failed. 

All of this.  We've all made mistakes in the moment and while his were large and public, I have no doubts he was a man with honor and integrity who both made and acknowledged the mistakes he made over time.  

@unkp, I do not mean in any way to ignore the terrible consequences of Colin Powell's decisions, both the Iraqi deaths, which have been estimated to be from 200,000 to a million; and the US soldiers - 4,400; then there were the injuries which take the tragedy to much higher levels. Then the financial costs to the US which went right into the pockets of US war profiteers, like Dick Chaney's company Halliburton.  It's nauseating.  Had Colin Powell been a hero, and stood up for his beliefs that the war was wrong, Bush would have immediately replaced him, but his testimony might have prevented Congress from voting for war. 

@jeanne-mayell 

I remember an interview with Daniel Ellsberg during the lead up to the Iraq war and he maintained that we needed people with information to tell the truth. He said in my recollection something close to, "They will lose their jobs, but they need to tell the truth."

This interview contains some of his thoughts on the Iraq war. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/19/579101965/daniel-ellsberg-explains-why-he-leaked-the-pentagon-papers

Ellsberg was a brave man who put his freedom on the line when he leaked the pentagon papers.  In this interview he mentions Edward Snowdon whose case has always interested me. It is seems to be a painful irony that Snowden found sanctuary, well, a place to live, in Russia.

@raincloud Ellsberg gave up so much and was disparaged widely for it. If Powell had done that, he would have quickly shrunk from power and a large segment of the D.C. leadership would have smeared him. Those just beneath his command would also have suffered. It's no small thing to stand up to the president and all those in power. 

Wow.....Regarding Powell's legacy:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/10/colin-powells-death-and-the-war-over-his-legacy.html

@raincloud Loved the back and forth of this article.  Very human and real. 

@jeanne-mayell thanks for making this thread.  I am just now seeing it, because i was away from the computer yesterday- most of the day i was actually at the VA hospital w my father.  That place is always full of Iraq war veterans, usually younger than me, some missing their legs or arms, or with PTSD.  And all for what?

 I remember going to all of the protests against that war.  There was one in San Francisco that felt like it must have had a million people at it.  It was by far the biggest protest i had ever been to.  But it barely got mentioned on the news- except, of course, to explain to the viewers that the freeways were being blocked by "terrorist sympathizers and traitorous cowards", which is what they called anyone who was opposed to that war.

 Often, while i am in the VA with Pops, some well meaning stranger will come up to me and say "Thank you for your service!  What branch were you in?"  And i have to say "Peace activist."  After the awkward silence, i add "you are welcome for my service."

 Many years ago, before the war in Iraq, i saw an interview with Mr. Powell.  He was talking about a time during the Vietnam war, when he had a bumper sticker on his VW Bug (he didn't mention if it was a pro- or anti-war sticker), and some older man got angry about it and yelled at Powell.  So he then went home and removed the sticker, and decided not to ever put another one out there like that.  I found this to be strangely fearful, for someone who was now supposed to be a General.  There is nothing wrong with expressing your opinions, esp over a life and death situation like war.  So what if it pisses off some old redneck? But it seems to have been a prelude to this:

Posted by: @jeanne-mayell

Powell made the mistake of his career about the war, and the saddest thing was that he was against the war but could not face up to his President to say no.

@unk-p I've been thinking about you, and grateful to you for keeping this discussion about Powell going. Those Iraq war vets with missing limbs must be remembered when we think of Powell. He failed them. That must never be forgotten. We can forgive him for his inability to stand up to his boss, but we must never forget the consequences.

Still I keep asking myself, why do I keep thinking about him?  

Maybe because we all need to evolve right now, yes now, and we must try to do better. We are living through the biggest change in human history.   

No one likes thinking about this, but I have to ask, what is life asking of me right now? Is there something I could do better?

Is anyone even going to read this far down my post LOL? 

@jeanne-mayell I ask myself that same question.

I've always thought I should make some big gesture and I never could imagine what that would be.  But now I think about just trying to look people in the eye and smile (with a smile that SHOWS in my eyes when I'm wearing a facemark) and get out of my introverted self to connect with ALL types of people. To try to make them feel "seen" and offer (to borrow one of my favorite lines in all of literature) "a smile with a quality of eternal reassurance and then concentrated with an irresistible prejudice in your favor." 

I have had that gift bestowed on me a few times and it can be life changing.

**And I read to the end of your post!

@unk-p I appreciate your service too. I admire the bravery to follow your own heart.