The amount of pain and anger expressed by our Gold Star and military families right now makes me feel like I have watched someone throw vinegar and lemon juice on their wounds. They are forced to bathe in acidic waters drawn by a man who is incapable of feeling compassion.
We see you. We hear you. We hold you up in light and love dear families.
tgraf, I agree, 100%, with everything you said.
MAS, I get where you're coming from, and you're right that after four years of divisiveness and chaos and illegality caused by this illegitimate administration, we have a huge task before us to fix all the damage.
However, I feel there is grave danger in not charging him and his enablers criminally. That's going to happen anyway, whether his base likes it or not. An unmistakable message needs to be sent to any and all future dictator wannabes not to try it. Laws need to be passed that will prevent this from ever happening again. As soon as they are out of power, widespread Rethug whining will commence about bipartisanship and moving on. Funny they don't think about that when they're in the driver's seat.
Karma can have his ass but Justice needs to take a big bite out of it first.
Allyn,
Do I believe the military would "save" Trump? No, I don't. I hope not.
Frankly, any of the scenarios you have laid out are possible.
I strongly maintain he is not going to surrender the position that is keeping him from being prosecuted. I caught a blurb of Michael Cohen on TV tonight and he said the same thing-he said T. will "do anything" to stay in power.
@lovendures Thank you ❤️ My son served and many friends and family and their children have and are serving. It was pure vile evil that he tried to retaliate by defunding The Stars and Stripes and has now spun it to "I won't let the Pentagon shut it down" when he is the one that told them to. Military families and members depend on this publication for so many reasons.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/04/pentagon-stars-and-stripes-newspaper-trump
I pray for the day in November when we can yell "You're fired!!!!" at him and his sycophants.
I agree that Trump and his co-conspirators need to be prosecuted. As I have said repeatedly, failure to do so will send a signal to Republicans that they can get away with anything (fake investigations to hurt opponents, using conspiracy theories such as the Birther Movement to incite violence against others, committing crimes, obstructing the government when it suits them, etc.). We tried the "live and let live" answer before, when Obama took office and Democrats chose to try to get along with Republicans instead of investigating them for the torture and crimes committed during the Bush years.
And how did the Republicans respond? They didn't even try to work with Obama! They declared war on the administration before it even took office! They incited their followers to attack Democrats at town hall meetings! They remained smug and silent when their followers killed people. And when Democrats refused to respond in kind, they took power.
Enough is enough. Only by responding forcefully by prosecuting the worst offenders will we ensure it stops. Also, if Democrats regain complete control, the end of gerrymandering, the strengthening of voting rights, and even the final abolishment of Electoral College needs to be prioritized so that it forces the Republican party to change completely (which means it needs to be more inclusive to survive), or to fade into history. But to allow them a free pass...it is simply not an option.
I agree that Trump will do anything to stay in power. But by staying in power, can he save his family?
While I sincerely doubt that he cares about his kids the same way a normal person would, I believe that he would take it as a personal affront if one or all of his children are prosecuted for their roles in his crimes. There is literally no protections for children of a President to be protected from prosecution. Period. There is no history and nothing in the Constitution that affords Trump's children the ability to be safe while Trump is being prosecuted.
So, would Trump step down if it meant that his children won't be locked up?
I guess that is the true question. Trump is probably incapable of love, but he would take it as a personal affront if someone other than himself punishes his children (he seems narcistic enough to where he feels that he and he alone should punish people). Who knows?
Personally, I think Trump's noose is getting tighter. With every passing day, the threat to our democracy gets worse and worse. I firmly believe that behind the scenes, there are multiple parties working to taking Trump out.
The question is how is he going to go out:
1. Voluntary resignation-Trump has a fake health condition and gets to leave before the election with a sense of dignity. Pence takes over briefly and pardons Trump and his family. The election takes place and the Democrats take over without any opposition from Republicans that would cause chaos. This is the best possible outcome for Trump and the country overall.
2. Involuntary resignation-Trump is forced out by Republican leaders (highly unlikely) or pretends to step down voluntarily (much like Nixon did when Republicans abandoned him) after a series of scandals occur that makes it impossible to win. Trump may decide that he will risk prosecution (trusting his attorneys to delay the process to the point that the prosecution ultimately gives up-AKA the usual "wear the other side down" approach) versus losing badly at the election and have his image destroyed forever.
3. Incapitation/Death (natural causes)-the stress and the unhealthy eating habits finally catches up with Trump, and he has a stroke or a heart attack before the election. Similarly, he may finally catch Covid 19 from his refusal to wear a face mask. He dies or is made to step down due to incapitation before the election. The election occurs, with Democrats sweeping the election and little uproar. This is not a very good outcome for Trump in the short term if he is incapitated, but he is allowed to keep his delusion that he didn't lose to Biden and would allow him to run in the future. But by then, prosecutors will go after him, and he eventually makes a deal or is convicted. A pardon from a sitting president at this point may save him from going to jail, but not from the damage to his image. That sheriff from Arizona who was convicted (and whom Trump pardoned) ran for office to regain his old seat, and he was soundly defeated.
4. Incapcitation/Death (outside forces)-same scenario applies, except that one of Trump's enemies decides that even if Trump loses badly at the election, the damage he can cause the nation is just too great to risk keeping Trump around. That enemy may incapacitate Trump somehow or even kill him before the election. Depending on the method used, it either looks like natural causes (poison that stops his heart and resembles a heart attack or stroke) or is a blatant attempt on his life (an assasignation attempt).
In the "natural causes" scenario, Trump will be dead or incapitated. Pence will run in his place, but be unable to garner the same energy Trump can from his base, and Biden wins. With Trump not being around to protest or cause chaos, the transition of power goes relatively smoothly.
In the assasination scenario, the right will blame the left, and chaos will erupt.
If Trump's enemy is someone who wants to preserve the country, they will go with the first scenario. If it is a foreign enemy who wants to cause chaos to America, it will be the second scenario.
Regardless, I feel that there will be a strong chance that we may make it to November 3, 2020 without the Predator in Chief with us. His constant attacks on the process is scaring a lot of people, and we have seen first-hand that he does not care who gets hurt so long as he wins. Whether by scandal, karma, an outside force, self-preservation, or even divine intervention, I think it is clear to everyone that if Trump is still around to protest the election after November 3, 2020, then the threat to our democracy is simply too great to ignore. Trump's enemies know this, and they will employee every weapon at their disposal to try to get Trump out before November 3, 2020 so that our election and our country will be safe. So keep an eye out for October, because I feel that this is the month that things really get interesting. If Trump makes it to the end of October as President, then our collective will absorb more damage. But if he is gone, then we can begin the healing process.
I pray that he leaves before November 3, 2020. It is sad, but the fate of our nation is at stake. So I hope the visions of Trump being "silenced" or in a straight jacket comes true.
Allyn,
You are a lawyer! ?
We all want the same thing, him gone and our country rebuilt. As for his kids, I've believed for a long time that they are already indicted, and well-deserved.
I'm taking some time off to be with spouse and get some stuff done. Everyone be well and be safe. ❤️
For anyone paying attention, Trump exposed a critical flaw yesterday that can be heavily exploited by his enemies.
He has always used racism to change the media cycle, but now that the Atlantic story broke and became the most damaging to date for him, he stepped up his racism to meet the explosiveness of the negative story with the cancelling of racial sensitivity training. If his political enemies keep upping the ante and pushing progressively damaging stories, he will counterpunch with increasingly racist actions. If they use this correctly, they can have him spewing nothing but racist hated by mid October, which will seal his fate with wavering voters.
However, I feel there is grave danger in not charging him and his enablers criminally. That's going to happen anyway, whether his base likes it or not. An unmistakable message needs to be sent to any and all future dictator wannabes not to try it.
That's exactly it. And the fact is that in charging the others criminally, investigators will likely find enough evidence to charge the Orange One, if not outright prove his own criminal activities.
The scenario where a 'president' Pence pardons Trump rings a bit hollow to me. Trump doesn't have federal charges aimed at him (yet), correct? Neither do his kids. Nixon did because of his scandal causing him to resign, but Trump doesn't. In my mind they would have to be an investigation first. Pence cannot pardon him ahead of that outcome. By then, people with a soul should be in power again and he can be charged.
As for your remark, @laura-f, I think every person I know thinks the US description of 'the left' is a bit loony;-) Even Obama had policies that would be considered centrist/right here. The only big names with 'left' ideas are AOC, Warren and Sanders. The rest really is centrist.
I think what they will do is try to just contain Trump long enough to not do the GOP any more damage - and they'll fail. There's no point in impeachment at this point, but if, for any reason he is reinstalled, impeachment will be successful, but they will draw it out. I still don't see the election fully settled (or maybe just the Trump situation, I'm not sure) until 2022.
I would not be surprised if all of his children turn against each other in order to curry favor with Daddy's will - they don't want to be left out like their father’s will.
I just saw the news, and I am shocked.
Apparently there was some sort of event where Trump suuporters staged some boat events (a bit like the Big Orange Navy every Saturday for the Tennessee Vols). Trump supporters decorated their boats with Trump banners and took to the waterways.
In Texas, one group hit some trouble when the waters suddenly became choppy. Many boats were forced to call for assistance, and at least four boats sank.
Thankfully, no reports of anyone being hurt in this incident, although many people are upset about the "big blue wave".
Irony? Or premonition? ?
Hi, I just looked at this, and that pardon business is what I heard today on the phone - along with some other things.
I've tried to stay away from the news. I did join a thing that contributes a nickel every time Trump tweets, and the money goes to a swing state.
I called a friend for his birthday. He asked me if I have a lot of Trump people in my family - I said I didn't think so. Truthfully I don't know. He said his family is loaded with them. Also a mutual friend went to visit her cousins and spent the entire time with her mouth glued shut - apparently they are all huge Trump people. It's so discouraging.
Then he asked me about the horrible protests going on here. So much for staying away from the news. I'm in a suburb - apparently my city has been being ripped apart for days because someone died in the hands of the police.
Then he told me he doesn't know what he'll do if Trump is re-elected. I don't either. I'm in such a depression now.
I saw it the same way. Trump supporters get the "rug pulled out from under them" by a blue wave. Im glad no one was hurt but I did get in a pretty good laugh at it.
Its ironic on so many levels. Blue wave taking them out, they lose something valuable directly because of their support of Trump, mother nature fights back with a sucker punch, etc.
Have faith. We will prevail, one way or another.
Trump will ultimately lose for multiple reasons:
1. The Republican Party is actively trying to keep people from voting. This may have worked in the past, but it won't now. Remember, they tried this earlier this year in Wisconsin when the pandemic was rampant there. They refused to move the election to a safer date, as well as refused to implement safeguards for the people. This was so they could ensure that their candidate for the State Supreme Court could win and ensure a conservative majority.
This did not work. The voters were rightly ticked and risked their lives to vote and elected the Democratic judge by more than ten percentage points.
People will do the same this time. Because we have even more reason to fight back than we did in March.
2. Did you know that each State has their own Secretary of State? If you didn't, don't worry about it, because many people don't know. But each Secretary of State is in charge of counting election ballots.
Why is this important? In Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Minnesota (all swing states that Trump must win based on the current Electoral Map), this position is held by Democrats. So if the race is too close to call, these people would be in charge of the recount in their states. Assuming there are no surprises (the red states vote Trump, the blue states vote Biden, and the swing states are up in the air), Trump will need to win three of the four I mentioned to win the electoral college. But if it comes down to a recount, he will have a difficult time trying to convince these people to cheat on his behalf. This may not seem like much (combined, these states provide about 57 electoral votes), but there are so many more swing states than there are in normal elections, and every small advantage will be implemented.
Also, based on current estimates based on the last few months, if the election was held today, Donald Trump would get about 125 electoral votes outright, while Biden would get 320, with 93 electoral votes being too close to call. Yes, yes. I know that we don't trust polls after 2016. Which brings me to my final point.
3. Trump himself. Trump can't help but keep shooting himself in the foot to the point that there is an actual coalition dedicated to voting him out, which was not present in 2016. While people who opposed Trump could only warn people that he wouldn't be a good president, we now have concrete reasons of why Trump can't stay on another four years (almost 185,000 dead from Covid 19, widespread unemployment, riots in the streets, etc.) Also, we have a group of Republicans who are actively voting against Trump, and THEY AREN'T TRYING TO HIDE IT!!!!! This was not present in 2016 either.
But I bet Trump will continue to make more mistakes and drive people away from him. While I doubt that his base will ever turn from him, I sincerely doubt that he will somehow widen his coalition. African Americans won't vote for him. Native Americans will not vote for him. Suburban women hate his guts. Hispanics, who may not be excited about Biden, are unlikely to vote for Trump in such huge numbers as to make a difference. And the youth vote, if they will make the effort, will certainly ensure a Trump defeat.
So hang in there. We can defeat him. Even when things seem impossible and it feels like he gets away with everything, remember this; If millions of people are protesting against Trump and his policy now (many, many more than Trump ever had at his rallies), do you think these people will stand idly by if Trump tries to steal the election? More to the point, if the Senate is flipped, do you think that a united Democratic Congress will tolerate Trump's presence a second more than necessary?
Also, don't worry about the pardon powers. Trump can only be pardoned for federal crimes, but not state crimes. So if New York files state charges for fraud, there is nothing he can do to save himself. Nothing.
Sending light to you in hopes that you are not discouraged any longer. We will make it. And after November 3, 2020, we will get on this site and share how happy we are that he is gone and what we will do to help heal this nation.
@allyn thank you for the encouragement. I don't know if you remember a slogan about one of the presidential candidates years ago "in your heart you know he's right." It might have been about Reagan. My uncle used to joke about it, that's why I remember it. But in my heart, I do think what you are saying is true. But it's almost like I'm afraid to believe it after the last time. I mean, what the heck happened the last time? It was so apparent he won early on - and people kept saying, well, I want to wait until all the votes are in. OMG.
@allyn thank you for the encouragement. I don't know if you remember a slogan about one of the presidential candidates years ago "in your heart you know he's right." It might have been about Reagan. My uncle used to joke about it, that's why I remember it. But in my heart, I do think what you are saying is true. But it's almost like I'm afraid to believe it after the last time. I mean, what the heck happened the last time? It was so apparent he won early on - and people kept saying, well, I want to wait until all the votes are in. OMG.
It was Barry Goldwater, and the joke was “In your guts you know he’s nuts.”
More to the point, if the Senate is flipped, do you think that a united Democratic Congress will tolerate Trump's presence a second more than necessary?
The Senate may flip, but not enough to get a bulletproof majority to convict on impeachment. There are 13 R seats up this time, and 6 are safe R. Of the other seven, one is leaning D and the rest are too close to call. I'm still hopeful, though. :-)