@lenor The other problem is that the Constitution expressly forbids pardons in cases of impeachment, so that's a non-starter, too. ;-)
You can still get pardoned on criminal charges. A pardon just won't end the impeachment and allow you to stay in office. Thats how I read it anyways.
He, or anyone else, still can use the 5th if he has a good lawyer. You cannot be forced to say something that can be used to incriminate you and any charges that can possibly be brought by state or local jurisdictions(of which the pardon has no influence) can still allow you to use the 5th amendment.
For instance, Trump pardons Rudy for any crimes he might have committed from 2016-2021. Rudy can still face state or local charges for inciting the riot, so he can plead the 5th still and not answer the question.
You can still get pardoned on criminal charges. A pardon just won't end the impeachment and allow you to stay in office.
I would agree with you unless the criminal charges are included as part of formal Articles of Impeachment. In that case, they can't be pardoned away, and impeachment on those charges included in the Articles will remain pursuable in the impeachment/conviction process. What is not clear is whether those same charges could be brought in a criminal case once that impeachment process is complete. I suspect that they might not be able to do so under the principle of double jeopardy, but I don't know. I think we'll probably find out over the next year or so. ;-)
T is so toxic at the moment that the New England Coach will not accept the Presidential Medal of Freedom due to the riots.
"Above all, I am an American citizen with a great reverence for our nation's values, freedom and democracy. I know I also represent my family and the New England Patriots team. One of the most rewarding things in my professional career took place in 2020 when, through the great leadership within our team, conversations about social justice, equality and human rights moved to the forefront and became actions. Continuing those efforts while remaining true to the people, team and country I love outweigh the benefits of any individual award."
I dont think you can include criminal charges, being those with a criminal penalty, in an impeachment. Impeachment is strictly a political tool so even a conviction of inciting an insurrection resulting in removal from office would have no effect on a criminal case. Double jeopardy isn't applicable because impeachment is not a criminal charge, even if the offense was criminal. From a judicial/legal standpoint, impeachment is no different than getting voted out of office in an election.
Conversely, if he is pardoned by Pence for the incitement, he cannot face federal criminal charges but that would have no impact on the impeachment. Also, he is still liable in any state or local criminal charges as well as civil charges if pardoned.
From a judicial/legal standpoint, impeachment is no different than getting voted out of office in an election.
@mas1581 Except incitement to insurrection is a criminal charge carrying a criminal penalty, as was obstruction of justice in the first go round, so obviously criminal charges can be included in the Articles. The part I'm not sure about is whether - after having been included in the impeachment/trial thing - those charges could actually be brought in a criminal case later. Or are you saying that because 1) Constitutional impeachment/trial is not a charge of criminality but of malfeasance and violation of public trust, and 2) Congress has no authority to impose any penalty beyond removal and injunction against holding future office, the use of criminal charges in an impeachment would not be regarded as the first instance in a double jeopardy claim?
Removal after impeachment wouldn't have any bearing on future criminal charges, but it does have some consequences that merely losing an election would not, including the loss of pension benefits, Secret Service protection, and classified briefings. It also would make the removed official ineligible to hold federal office in the future.
@jampa He would lose access to classified briefings once he's out of office regardless of how it happens, but yes, he would lose pension benefits, staff subsidies, and the travel allowance. Secret Service protection, however, is not one of the perks that he would lose.
Regardless of what Congress decides, one perk Trump will get to keep is his Secret Service detail—a 2013 amendment to the law guaranteed lifetime protection, even to presidents removed from office.
In addition, the loss of the ability to hold future office is not automatic upon removal. That requires a second, simple majority vote by the Senate if he is removed by the 2/3 vote first.
Much more information here, including questioning whether he keeps the Secret Service protection. However, because it is more recent, the 2013 law referenced above would seem to take precedence unless the former president refuses the offer of protection as Jimmy Carter did many years ago.
Ok. some thoughts on the recent actions of McConnell and Pence.
At first, I was furious that these two are continuing to pander to Trump (McConnell by delaying the impeachment vote and Pence by refusing the 25th amendment). But I have had some time to reflect, and I wonder if there is a hidden agenda here.
Now, we know the Republican party is screwed. They got too many racist, conspiracy believing, terrorists in their midst to keep that element and the traditional Republicans together in the same party. They will continue to battle each other and call each other traitors depending on their feelings about Trump.
McConnell has reaped the rewards of his dealings with Trump. He has tried to use Trump to put the Republicans first and drum up support for the Georgia vote, but it failed miserably, causing him to lose his position. And if the Republicans fail to retake the Senate in 2022, I don't see McConnell sticking around (Republicans have 21 seats to protect versus 14 Democrat seats. And two of the Republican seats will be open, as those senators will be retiring).
I think it is also safe to say that Pence is damaged goods too. Besides the pandemic response, Pence has been cast as a traitor by the Trump terrorists, so I don't foresee a national political career for him in the future either.
Having said that, I think that Pence and McConnell are being very sneaky right now. They are "playing nice" with Trump right now to play both sides of the Republican party, so it is for personal reasons. But I also think that they are also working to make it easier for Democrats to come up with charges against Trump.