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Our re-opened society and a new normal post-covid

(@nelysthealchemist)
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Posted by: @jsr78

@nelysthealchemist https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2107070

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104983?query=recirc_mostViewed_railB_article

Thank you for this- I appreciate the information, although I haven’t really been concerned about the safety of the vaccine itself (I’ve been fully vaccinated with Moderna since late March) more about how protected I am by the vaccine when encountering the delta variant. Since I haven’t been able to find any data on fully vaccinated pregnant women infected by the delta variant and outcomes, the best I can do is assume that because I’m pregnant/somewhat immunocompromised, the vaccine won’t protect me as well against a more severe infection. Honestly, I don’t even want a mild breakthrough infection (haha)- I know at least three people who have also been fully vaccinated and have had breakthrough infections in the last few weeks, and their “mild” cases were the worst experience they’ve ever had with a virus. I think “mild” is categorized as anything that doesn’t land you in the hospital(?). Anyway, you can see why with all the unknowns and the ability to do my job from home, I’m hoping I can get the reasonable accommodation to continue to telecommute approved…



   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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@jsr78 Thank you for finding and posting this study. To summarize: During the period they were analyzing data, there were 36,000 pregnant women who got either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines. 

They were only able to follow 827 of them. But these 827 women did not show any unusual outcomes above the normal range of outcomes that occur in any group of pregnant women.

This information of course does not tell us about the long-term effects of the vaccines on children who were in utero at the time.  One thing to note is that most of the data they got were for women who got their shots in the third trimester, so they don't know how the vaccines effect pregnancies when they are given in the first two trimesters. 

It's interesting that injection-site pain was reported more frequently among pregnant persons than among nonpregnant women, whereas headache, myalgia, chills, and fever were reported less frequently. 

Back when the vaccines were first being studied, Moderna did animal studies and found no issues with pregnant animals, but that only tells us so much. 

Finally, they did make the point that pregnant women who get Covid-19 are at greater risk for severe disease after getting sick from Covid-19, resulting in intensive care unit admission, mechanical ventilation, and death. Pregnant women with coexisting illnesses such as diabetes, hypertension, and obesity were recognized to be at even greater risk.4 Studies also showed an increased risk of pregnancy complications — including preterm birth, cesarean delivery, and preeclampsia — associated with Covid-19 infection during pregnancy.5

I hope this helps anyone who finds reading studies hard to wade through. 



   
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(@lovendures)
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Topic starter  

 

I flew on a plane  today and boy,  lots of people were traveling, especially for mid- week during a pandemic.    So what is it like to fly right now?  Glad you asked!
 
Here are some of the things I noticed while traveling.  Enjoy the flight commentary!
 
Dropping off the bags-  I forgot how “fun" it is to get into a war with the baggage claim sticky tape.  You know, the kind that you wrap around your bag handle. This may just be a Southwest thing but it never goes exactly right for me. Apparently I can’t read directions on how to accomplish this action correctly and actually needed assistance to get a “redo" from the ticket agent. It is very sticky. I believe the ticket agent won that war.
 
Security- they no longer want items taken out of bags including toiletries or electronics anymore. Nothing. It took about 15 minutes to get through security. The lines are back. People are doing their own social distancing thing. Some stand on the six foot markers. Others are totally done with that and have no distancing from others, social or otherwise. Others like me seem to be doing a 3 foot thing. 
 
Let’s talk gates-  My gate was directly on top of another gate ( 6 feet at most separating the doors ) and it was near yet another at the end of the concourse. All three were boarding at the same time. Social distancing doesn’t exist. 
Thank goodness were are all ( mostly ) wearing masks. There is no way airports can lift this rule right now.    The plane was totally booked it had more room than the boarding area today.  
 
Masks- most people were doing a good job. A few were showing signs of "entitlement syndrome". wearing it below the nose, talking on the phone with it off their face. Blah Blah blah.  Most everyone else was fine. Including most of the younger kids.  Please don’t tell me wearing a mask is too difficult for you 8 year, it isn’t.  They’ve got this.
 
Boarding -  I found myself scanning rows walking down the aisle as I was plotting where to sit (Southwest, remember), looking at who is wearing their mask correctly and who looked annoyed or grumpy? I wanted happy mask wearers.  
I was definitely judging others.
 
On the Flight-  Found an aisle seat. Found overhead storage. Good because it is a full flight.  
I was reminded that kids are kids.   A cute little happy preschool girl dropped her Frappuccino from Starbucks at my feet because she was carrying way too much stuff down the aisle. (Aisle seat hazard I guess.) The aisle became a disaster zone  of frozen brown Frappuccino.   I used a hand sanitizing to clean the Frappuccino drink from my shoe.  The flight attendant got out towels to a absorb the drink from the carpet. The mom was annoyed with her daughter who couldn’t believe her drink was now gone. A sad and shocking moment for her. Surprising for me too. Haha.
 
Oh yeah. Babies fly on planes  during pandemics. There was a cute happy and vocal one nearby.
The people in front of me were playing their music loudly for take-off. That was new.  The empty seat between me and my window mate doesn’t stay empty long. A teenage boy claims it. Ok cool.
Maybe not cool. Here were some of my thought about teen-boy.
 
He doesn’t look well, his head is in his hands and his eyes are closed.
I am judging again.
But I am sitting next to him so yes I am judging . Glad he is wearing a mask. He is trying to adjust the fan. His ears are red, does that mean something ?  He is falling asleep, maybe he simply is tired. This is what teens do, sleep all day right? I am going with tired for the sake of my sanity.
 
Now, where to put my purse for take off was almost an issue, you remember the  Frap  incident?  The floor under the seat in front of me was mostly safe, thank goodness. 
 
So far so good and people are behaving.
They baby in front of me stopped crying too.
Take off went well.
Snacks and drinks were being served. (Good news for little Frappuccino girl). 
 
Oh maybe not good news. I was the last one on the entire plane to get a beverage. Seriously the last one and 8 more rows were  behind me. We were heading into some "weather" and flight attendants were forced to stop serving beverages and begin collecting them. 
I drank my water quickly and handed the cup back. Poor little Frap girl is is seated a few rows behind me and did not get a drink or snack.   Sad!! Now I want to buy her a Frappuccino poor kid. 
 
Ok, how is there “weather” between Phoenix and LA? I didn’t leave “weather” and wasn’t supposed to arrive to any “weather”. It isn’t that long of a flight. 
 
Teenage boy was still sleeping. Maybe he was up late watching the Olympics???
 
So far, so good. Nobody tried to open the door mid-flight, nobody got mad, even after canceling beverage service halfway through. Not even Frap girl got upset. I even tried to flirt with the baby in front of me but it is hard to flirt with a baby when you’re wearing a mask. They can’t see your expression change. They just stare at you with big eyes waiting for something... 
Oh well. 
 
Landing was fast and abrupt. 
 
Then suddenly  Covid reality strikes.
Every Single Phone is going off with an emergency public service alert warning about  the rise of Covid cases in L.A. and encouraging people to get vaccinated and to get testing if they get Covid symptoms.
 
I have never heard an emergency alert on a plane before, let alone a full flight of emergency alerts going off. That was different!!!
 
That pretty much sums up my flight.
 
And how was your day?
 
 


   
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(@dannyboy)
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Posted by: @lovendures

That pretty much sums up my flight.

Light and love my friend.  Light and love.

I found it odd that they didn't ask me to take stuff out of my carry on either - but it reinforced the thing I've always fallen prey to thinking about the security checkpoints - it's more security theater than anything else.

My flight TO Kentucky was out of a tiny airport that was harder to socially distance through, but my flight home was in a much larger terminal which made it easier to find a gate nearby with no one waiting.

I'm hoping that our conference in November gets pushed virtual again because I'm not certain I can handle travel during the holiday season during "non-pandemic" times, let alone whatever greek letter we'll be on to by that point.



   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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@lovendures Loved your account. I was really there with you.  And it affirms that I'm not going on a plane any time soon, if I can help it. 



   
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(@jovesta)
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Hi everyone!  I am back.

What is the current feeling about whether the elementary schools are going to stick it out full-time with this Delta varient bearing down on us or should we prep mentally for hybrid or virtual school again?

 



   
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 CC21
(@cc21)
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@jovesta 

I am curious about this, too. I can't seem to get a read on it just yet. Maybe because I have school-aged kids (heading into 7th and 9th grades) and can't let myself get too worried. I am fortunate because my older daughter has been fully vaccinated and the younger turns 12 at the end of the month so she will get her first shot right before school starts.

On the surface, though, as we are seeing, the Delta variant has really changed the game on the spread of COVID. The transmissibility increase alone should have schools doubling down on plans for virtual, masking, ventilation, etc. well beyond what we did last fall (esp. at the elementary and middle school levels.) Most are probably doing that, but we haven't heard anything specific here (Michigan) on what our schools will be doing yet besides masking. I think so many folks saw the problems with virtual that everyone is going to mask up, cross their fingers and send kids to school and see how it all plays out. 



   
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(@ana)
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Posted by: @jovesta

Hi everyone!  I am back.

What is the current feeling about whether the elementary schools are going to stick it out full-time with this Delta varient bearing down on us or should we prep mentally for hybrid or virtual school again?

 

It's going to vary from district to district, as it should, depending on local conditions.  Also depends on the spines of the local school officials.

  Our district just gave the middle finger to the gov. and mandated masks for the first few weeks of school, with the policy to be reviewed and possibly renewed later. 



   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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If anyone is thinking of air travel or getting a visit from someone who is flying in, here is an excellent article showing you precisely how airplanes’ ventilation systems work and what happens if a mask-wearing, covid-shedding person sneezes in your row or the row in front or behind you.  Keep in mind that no one is wearing a mask when they are eating or drinking. The writers also address the situation in the terminal too where people are eating and drinking. 

Worth a look  

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/travel/flying-plane-covid-19-safety.html

PS I thought about the school question that three of you have asked and as you said, it is going to vary by state and district.  In many districts they are going to think of the infection rate as they think of chickenpox because delta spreads like chickenpox and schools are quite familiar with chickenpox spread, which is legendary.  But perhaps if you name the state and district some people can see what they get. @jovesta @cc21 and @iridium
Also permission for children to get covid vaccines is expected by mid to late fall. That hope may give many schools the permission to set stricter standards for he first quarter of the year with an eye to lifting them when kids can get vaccinated.  



   
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(@jovesta)
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@jeanne-mayell We are in Western New York.?



   
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 CC21
(@cc21)
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We are in southeast Michigan. I will have one in public high school and one in a smaller public charter (so they have a little more flexibility.)



   
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 CC21
(@cc21)
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@jeanne-mayell Very neat visual on the plane's air circulation, Jeanne. Thanks for sharing!



   
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(@nelysthealchemist)
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Posted by: @jovesta

Hi everyone!  I am back.

What is the current feeling about whether the elementary schools are going to stick it out full-time with this Delta varient bearing down on us or should we prep mentally for hybrid or virtual school again?

 

Honestly, I wish the focus could be on schools being remote until kids under 12 can be vaccinated. This variant is so contagious and more unvaccinated children are getting very sick in areas with lower vaccination rates already. I am afraid for our little ones, but I understand that remote learning has been incredibly challenging and our country is not in the same position it was a year ago (I get that it might not be feasible to move everyone to remote learning again and has been detrimental in many levels). I don’t know what the right answer is and can’t get a good read on the outcome, but the situation feels much more chaotic and unsettled leaving everything to school districts rather than having state/federal mandates. I’m afraid there will be lots of cases in children this fall/winter before they’re able to get vaccinated.



   
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(@lovendures)
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Topic starter  

@nelysthealchemist '

One thing which would be helpful is to mandate covid tests each week for students.  They aren't perfect but they are a tool.

AZ, Florida and Texas are ostriches and head burying will not change the reality of the situation no matter how hard they try.  Delta is a different animal and for whatever reason, many schools/states are treating it like a weaker cousin.  They are ignoring the elephant in the room.  The huge and trumpeting elephant.



   
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(@carmen)
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The county I live in recently declared that staff, teachers, and students must wear masks. Of course, parents are already calling into the superintendent as they are very much not pleased with the mandate. ? 

I want to be positive but I don't see this getting any better as so many people are stubborn not only on wearing masks but getting vaccinated too. More children are being hospitalized due to Delta but I'm starting to question if that will even change hearts and minds as so many in America seem quite stubborn and continue to dig their heels in about the situation.

 



   
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(@honeybee)
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@nelysthealchemist The county near my neck of the woods went viral because a group of parents and protesters caused such a show (including Madison Cawthorne) at the school board meeting last week. It was in Newsweek. The county made masks mandatory unless one had proof of vaccination. The crowd demanded a revote, accused the board of being criminals and called wearing masks child abuse, called for them to be thrown in jail. It was BONKERS. And then there were a few worried about CRT as well. I am afraid that educators are going to be yelled at a lot this year. It is the new norm. ?



   
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(@honeybee)
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@nelysthealchemist The county near my neck of the woods went viral because a group of parents and protesters caused such a show (including Madison Cawthorne) at the school board meeting last week. It was in Newsweek. The county made masks mandatory unless one had proof of vaccination. The crowd demanded a revote, accused the board of being criminals and called wearing masks child abuse, called for them to be thrown in jail. It was BONKERS. And then there were a few worried about CRT as well. I am afraid that educators are going to be yelled at a lot this year. It is the new norm. ?



   
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(@laura-f)
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@jeanne-mayell @lovendures @bluebelle @baba @unk-p @ghandigirl and everyone whose handle I can't recall:

Seeking advice with some intuitive insights.

My husband and I have not been on a plane OR left California since February 28, 2020. We are both fully vaccinated as is everyone we know including relatives.  We had to cancel many plans in 2020, and were not able to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary and other things. We wanted to head up to British Columbia this summer, but the border only reopens tomorrow, so we didn't book anything. We do our best to get outdoors, but I am a traveling soul, always have been, and I need a real change of scenery.

A couple of months ago I booked a trip to Kona, Hawaii for us and for our daughter and her BF. For mid-October. Flights are not an issue - all on points which are refundable anyway. I couldn't book a hotel - too expensive and mostly booked up, so we booked a condo through VRBO. This also reduces the need to eat in restaurants as it has a full kitchen. We had to pay half up front. The other half is due on August 20, and once paid the whole thing becomes non-refundable. I did purchase travel insurance, however it clearly states that while it would cover cancellation due to COVID infection, it does not cover lockdowns, travel restrictions, nor the decision not to travel during COVID. If we cancel after Aug 20, we lose about $2000.

We'd all mask up on the plane and try not to eat til we land, but masks are not required on planes anymore (on some airlines). Our activities would be entirely outdoor - hiking, beach, snorkel, etc. and no nightclubs or anything remotely like that. We would also avoid large group activities like boat rides, etc.

We have 2 weeks to decide whether to cancel a much needed vacay AGAIN. Need advice and insight.

Thanks and namastè!

 



   
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(@laura-f)
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Posted by: @jeanne-mayell

If anyone is thinking of air travel or getting a visit from someone who is flying in, here is an excellent article showing you precisely how airplanes’ ventilation systems work and what happens if a mask-wearing, covid-shedding person sneezes in your row or the row in front or behind you.  Keep in mind that no one is wearing a mask when they are eating or drinking. The writers also address the situation in the terminal too where people are eating and drinking. 

Worth a look  

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/travel/flying-plane-covid-19-safety.html

PS I thought about the school question that three of you have asked and as you said, it is going to vary by state and district.  In many districts they are going to think of the infection rate as they think of chickenpox because delta spreads like chickenpox and schools are quite familiar with chickenpox spread, which is legendary.  But perhaps if you name the state and district some people can see what they get. @jovesta @cc21 and @iridium
Also permission for children to get covid vaccines is expected by mid to late fall. That hope may give many schools the permission to set stricter standards for he first quarter of the year with an eye to lifting them when kids can get vaccinated.  

This article is behind their paywall - do you have some other way to share it? (Thanks!)

 



   
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(@dannyboy)
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@laura-f If you have a Mac, an iPad, or an iPhone, you can pull the page up in the Safari browser and hit the little paper like icon in the address bar to read it in reader mode - gets around the NYT paywall (Until that trick gets more known :P)



   
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