Brexit

There is so much division in the government(and society) at the moment that I just cant imagine how it can all be sorted out. It just seems getting worse by day.  I really would appreciate your opinion. The idea of UK leaving single market really worries me more than anything, as I know many small businesses already being affected by the instability. Also I believe united Europe is best for keeping peace , WW2 is a very recent history. I would be very grateful for your opinion. Love to all. 

  Things will get much worse before they get better.

Asian, thank you very much for your reply. Do see some sort of trade deal between UK and Europe? Any chance of remaining in the single market? Thanks again. 

What I see for present is lots of confusion and inner fighting for next few years. The economy of europe will remain unstable in future which will destabilize the continent more and more. British elite didn't wanted any part of it. Also, I felt they have some valuable resources in england which would put them in vulnerable position incase of another financial crisis. So, they mobilised the brexit campaign from behind.

Europe will want a soft brexit(mostly because they fear if any struggling states makes exit after this, it would put the future of union under question). Britain would want to get as much as possible from negotiation. It is hard to say what will come out of negotiation(how much power globalists will wield in future is big factor).Because, so much things will go on at that time. One thing is sure however things won't back to past. Britain will try to not involve itself into european issues.  

In a decade or so britain will also localize. Scottish secsession, a economy which is depended on sectors like farming. EU too will become obsolate at that point. It is a very different scenario.

For this future to materialize people have to take up new ways. However before that happens more chaos, confusion, volatility will collapse the old societal structure. It is necessery for future to emerge.That's why I said things will get much worse. Hope this helps.

Asian, as always I value your opinion, thank you. Its just so much division and confusion right now and its getting worse every day. I just hope and pray they can sort this out in a way that causes the least harm as I cant see any benefits at the moment. Wondering what others see happening. Zoron too predicted hard times ahead. 

Sadly divisons and confusions are initiated by dark powers. They are not spontaneous. So, it will increase indeed. It suites their agenda. By year 2020-22 everyone will look hopeless. 

Very sad. I wish people put all the energy in uniting rather than dividing themselves. We are so much stronger together, but as you say the dark powers have their own agenda. The greed for wealth and power ... 

With negotiations going nowhere Im wondering how this mess can be sorted. Would like to hear if anyone is picking up anything at all. Can there be a trade deal between uk and eu?

Hello Dina,

I am an EU citizen, (Irish) living in the UK, We have our own huge problems with the UK, there are about 4 million Irish citizens resident, under the present treaty agreement, that makes the UK and Ireland a common travel and residence zone, and unified the right to work in each country. There are also about another 6 million dual nationals, from descent, that are entitled to Irish Passports, but have british residency and citizenship. I mention this, as, you can imagine, I am scanning closely the situation. It is not good. The most important thing about BREXIT is this human aspect. It is going to cause a lot of suffering. Although the experience is going to be harsh, eventually Northern Ireland, which is controlled by the London government and considered a part of the UK, is going to end up reunified with the South. The UK government and forces wwill withdraw from the North, it will be unified. I mwention this, as the same situation applies to Scotland. I am very very clearly seeing it seperate from the rest of the UK, and becoming fully independent. This will happen within the next 10 years, but probably, within 5 years, or less. I see the present Scottish state government declaring a "Unilateral Declaration of independence", from mainland UK. This will be as the London government has acted with utter stupidity and arrogance, and tried to retain control of Scotland, and keep it in the UK. The issue, the huge purple Elephant in the living room, is the OIL. Scotland now has oil reserves bigger than Kuwait, Norway, or many other Gulf States. there have been recent huge new oil discoveries. Without access and control of that oil, plus other things, the UK will be in absolute economic crisis. 

What I am seeing, is that the UK Government is making secret contingency plans to move after BREXIT against  the present Internal Scpttish state government, and to pass legislation that strips the Edinburgh Government of most of its power, and returns this power back to london. this will be a precursor to abolishing the Scottish Government altogether  within five years.  The Scots are well aware of this, and have started making contingency plans. Avoiding some sort of violent separation will be very difficult. The Welsh have their own devolved state government, but it has limited powers, and Wales is heavily populated by English people moving there. It makes the nationalist movement there almost powerless to do anything significant. As the BREXIT social and economic crunch hits, there will be protests, but they will be contained. England, in 5 years time, will be a very different place. There will eventually be a tight border with Scotland, which will rejoin the EU, very rapidly, and will be protected by the other EU states from the london government. 

The rest of the UK, internally, is not going to be a very happy place, BREXIT day plus five years. There  will have been a disasterous BREXIT, with a hopeless agreement with the EU, a large number of EU residents leaving the UK, many foreign corporations shutting down their UK operations, or greatly reducing them, as they no longer have an open market with the rest of the EU. The economic consequences will be very severe. Also, a hardline, right wing government is very likely to push for a very nasty NEO-CON society, with even basic freedoms and rights, suppressed, with  severe austerity, and repeal of basic laws that in any way get in the way of the big corporations. The UK Government will also draw oin some very nasty oligarchs and their cash, in a desperate attempt from going essentially bankrupt. A lot more of the same. The probability of this is about 70% at the moment. Eventually, there is a huge backlash from the general population, and a nasty polarisation between them and the right wing elements and forces in UK. Something like an "Arab Spring" will happen. it will be crushed. People will despair. There is a low chance, (at the moment, 20%) of the present UK government losing its parliamentary majority, being forced into an election, and losing. If that happens, the incoming labour coalition government will be marginal, very weak, and not able to do much. it will split under the internal issues between its members, and a period of unstable government, that is weak and ineffective, will happen. it wwill also be forced, by economic circumstances, to continue the policies of the previous Government, but not as harshly. Popular discontent and anger will grow, and there will be large protests, upheavals, and disturbances. failure, and a fragmenting society.  meanwhile, the UK will be running an "Offshore" economy, acting as a sort of  refuge for Dirty money, nasty oligarchs, etc, and ruthless labour exploitation. UK, the remnents, will struggle on. The EU will be very hostile, to what has happened, but will not be able to intervene. They will be forced to introduce strict laws to prevent UK citizens fleeing the UK to the EU. all of this plays out over a 20 year timescale, but the first five years are going to be very bad. 

Zoron this is horrifying. It's quite honestly far worse than I could have imagined. Where on earth are you going to live when this happens, and Dina too. I can't imagine that your corner of Sussex is going to become a hateful place any time soon, it has a lovely energy there. However the question that gnaws at my mind and keeps me up at night is what propelled people to vote for Brexit and also Donald Trump. I can't respect people who were fooled into thinking that they're economic anxiety was the result of immigration and that closing borders and voting in the right wing is going to help. But it's always the rural working class in any country that seems to be the most idiotic and bigoted. I could say a lot of unkind things but I won't. Is there a connection between the oligarchs who fund the American governments and those that pull the strings in Britain. And also I can feel a very strong nazi element here, there's something very dark beneath the surface and I can't put my finger on it, I can just feel that jt exists and has been planning a lot of this for a long time. It almost feels supernatural, but that might be going too far, maybe its just psychotic. 

If its not too much Zoron, can you please take a look at Canada. I feel that the hope of the world is there, but I'm very concerned about the present governments climate change inaction (while they do so many other things well). For me Canada represents the shining city on a hill, maybe that's just bias. If you can please take a scan I would greatly appreciate it. 

I'm sorry for all these requests, feel free to ignore them if its too much.

With love

Natalie

Zoron thank you so much for your long post! As Natalie said this is horrifying. I love UK and the the place I live, which is predominantly remain, and always felt welcome here. I moved here straight after uni and this has been more home than my home country, I started family here. It brakes my heart thinking its going to get so bad. I feel bad for all the lovely people who voted remain and are stuck with this awful referendum result. Referendum that was based on lies upon lies. Natalie, I feel sad and just hope all of this goes away. This uncertainty already has affected our family business as we mainly deal with eu countries. And unfortunately my husband is making plans to move to another eu country, so he doesn't have to lose the company after brexit if there is no trade deal. Its scary and sad, as I love the area I live and moving with family is much harder than moving on your own which I did all those years ago. I agree with you about the nazzi element, Natalie. These are people blinded by hate towards immigrants, they blame all the problems in the world on immigration and only see bad in other people. Their hearts are dark place, there is no compassion, just see daily mail comments section. Horrible news outlet with even worse readers, there is no compassion, no love, no hope, just pure hate, and all sorts of phobias (xenophobia, Islamophobia, homophobia etc.)  Where all this anger and hate is coming from? I guess the same question can be asked about trump voters. There is no humanity in these people. When they look at another person, that maybe speaks another language than them, looks different they dont see a human, they dont see similarities with themselves, they just see all the things they hate. Its sad really, but I pray and hope for the world where people love each other and take care of each other and this beautiful planet. And the day that we stop dividing ourselves in groups, nations, religions, ethnicity or whatever else, and embrace the differences,learn from each other rather than hate each other. Love and peace x 

I voted for Brexit. Don't get me wrong I like Europe just not happy with the EU. To be honest I don't think we need to worry about the doom and gloom predictions in regards to how Brexit will work out. Look at Mays speech today will be more years before we even leave. Let's be honest the bankers and elites will never let us leave.  The delay etc and bad management of the whole process is all by design. This will be the last time I ever play the voting game again.

I would also point out that many American multi-nationals, like the one that I worked for, have facilities in the UK specifically because they can have access to the European Union (and have an English speaking workforce). The EU has no patience for the UK and is moving ahead with Brexit sooner rather than later. As this moves forward I fully expect to see companies like the one that  worked for move their operations out of the UK and into an EU country such as Ireland. As far as Zoron's prediction goes,  I can see Brexit being the fuse that blows the UK as we know it apart.

I am still not convinced Brexit will still happen now, Mays speech seen to that yesterday. Basically UK gov is going to kick the can down the road and keep stretching the interim period. They are playing hot potatoe. Does Zoron see things differently now after the speech yesterday?

When the BREXIT debate was happening prior to the vote I honestly did not know what the best decision would be. From a purely mercenary perspective I should have been against it because members of my family who come from Latvia have been living and working in the U.K. for about a decade now. When Scotland was holding it's referendum on UK membership vote, I supported the remain side for the same reasons that I was always against my own country of Canada losing Quebec, I thought united we are stronger than divided. And while I still believe that, I know now how naive a sentiment that is, and it saddens me. I asked the friends I have still living in the UK prior to the brexit vote what they thought, most were opposed but the arguments in favor of brexit were not weak. I understood very well the idea of sovereignty and not liking laws passed in Brussels to be dictated to the residents of the UK without their input. That's a genuinely strong argument. But Paul is also right, the free market for as long as we live in a society dictated by the demands of the market very much likes the open borders and will definitely move headquarters and jobs abroad once the gates are shut. So economically it's inevitable that there will be problems, and also that regular people will suffer the brunt of it, as unfortunately they always do. One thing that I later learned through studying the Trump and Brexit phenomena was how much economic anxiety triggered the vote for Brexit and for Donald Trump, and also how much of that economic anxiety was then misdirected in anger and bigotry towards immigrants, blaming them for taking jobs, instead of the oligarchs who created the whole neo-liberal system which kept wages down and allowed the rich to siphon money offshore in tax havens. Studying the growth of fascism, I've come to learn how much economic anxiety plays in people's fears and creates scapegoats for societies problems out of marginalized communities. It is always easier to blame the other instead of looking to ourselves and our own elites as the problem. That said arguments in favor of brexit were not necessarily weak, but it is clear that they were sold to the public by a venomous right wing media campaign funded by oligarchs like Rupert Murdoch. The pro brexit campaign sold the message that there were no downsides, when clearly there are and will be, and now that's becoming apparent. The same goes for the Tory government, the idea of compassionate conservatism as embodied by David Cameron is an oxymoron, the concept doesn't exist. Conservatism in practice is always about helping the rich and cutting benefits to the poor (and not all poor people are benefits moochers, some are students who watched their tuition fees triple under the Cameron government). I'm not advocating that you stop voting UK1, in fact I would prefer that you continue to vote and not lose hope in creating a better society. I would recommend that you join organizations that fight for the causes you believe in, whether it's economic justice, human rights or anything else. Progress in society usually comes from public pressure on government, not the other way around. So if you want to fight the oligarchs running your country it's important for you to step up and get active, believe me it can work. Lastly I want to say that the people who voted for Brexit should try to understand the perspective of immigrants, particularly EU immigrants on this issue. People from the former soviet republics went through extreme economic deprivation during the 1990's and suffered heavily during the last great global recession of 2008. None of this was their fault, it makes sense that many of them would leave their countries to search for better economic opportunities elsewhere. They are not criminals, and they are not stealing jobs (often they do jobs that native Brits do not want to do, the same as Mexican illegal immigrants in the United States), they just want a chance at a better life, like everyone on this planet who isn't rich. Brexit deeply hurt many of these people, they began to feel that they were unwelcome and saw their brexit voting neighbors as cruel bigots. I passionately wish that we could all see the humanity in all people, and strive to communicate and understand each other with respect and empathy. I know I've been ranting and I apologize.

Sending love and light

Natalie

Zoron says Hello Natalie, 

A very interesting post. As You say: "  "the idea of compassionate conservatism as embodied by David Cameron is an oxymoron, the concept doesn't exist." Indeed. The idea of a compassionate conservative is as believable as that of a vegetarian shark. That says it all.

Living, as I do, right at the heart of the storm that is the BREXIT process, with all its steadily increasing horrors and nastyness,  is not a nice experience. As an Irish citizen, I have an exit escape route, and could easily move to Dublin, if and when things get worse here, as BREXIT bites, and the rising tide of meanness and nastiness increases, which it is steadily doing. 

I have spent a lot of time this Summer going to various scientific conferences and events, and many of my EU fellow scientists working here are  are in  despair. There EU research grants will be cut off, after BREXIT, they face personal difficulties, like the other 2 million EU citizens here, with great anxiety and worry over their immigration status, plus a growing atmosphere of xenophobia and hostility from a large chunk of those who voted YES for BREXIT. All off this is making them leave, or plan to leave, as they no longer feel welcome. It is going to do massive damage to the UK science base, and also the same applies to the rest of the EU operations here. Many big companies are planning to leave, transferring 80/90% of their operations back to the EU. All this is causing fear and hatred, and is exactly what the UK Neo-Cons wanted. England in a time of brewing fascism. We have the same problems here that the USA has, with its own ALT-RIGHT, Neo-Cons, etc, and the Oligarchs. The atmosphere is horrible. As You can imagine, I am scanning, doing "OOB's"Remote viewing, , etc, and getting the  Zeitgeist of the sitution.  The UK is in for a very bad time. I have some serious predictions I am going to post, later, probably tomorrow, or the next few days. about all this. But, basically, expect growing right wing extremism, if the Tories continue in power, and eventual descent into being the most right wing country in Europe, (except it will not be in Europe, any longer) and that this means huge internal conflict, and the eventual break up of the existing UK, as each UK country goes its own way. 

The alternative, not in any way strong,at the moment, is a political crisis and the accession of a Labour Government, and some attempts to fix the problems, but it will be directly attacked by the Oligarchs, and will struggle, with great difficulty, to fix things. Eventually, it is overtaken by both internal and external events. It will fail, and the UK will break up anyway. Thats the future, as seen right now. Moree on this in a major post later, this week. 

Dear Natalie and Zoron, I red your posts several times. Zoron thank you for posting your predictions, they will help me make difficult decisions about future. As I said after brexit and if there is no trade deal we will have to move our business to eu country, as all our sales currently and for many years have been with eu countries, any kind off tariffs would destroy the company. I know many small family owned companies are making plans to move their business to Ireland. This is not bad just for small or big businesses. People i know from eu that have studied here and lived here for many years highly educated, in very good jobs are moving to germany or other eu countries and for them its more ideological and because they can easily afford to do it. These are very highly educated people, doctors, engineers, scientists - so this is bad for uk too. 

Dear Natlie, I agree with everything you say. The problem is brexit campaign was based on lies upon lies. They lied so easily as they didnt think they could actually win. So many laws passed in EU are actually very good for human rights, workers rights, environment etc. Brexiters talk about laws imposed by eu as something bad, when in fact many laws have been great. Limiting use of pesticides for example. 

Do you still see Brexit playing out badly?

Natalie and Zoron, thank you for your insightful posts.

While doing a timeline reading with my local students last night, I saw a high court British judge trying to rectify Brexit. It seemed he was waiving it.  Said that it was illegal to begin with. The image occurred when we were reading 2025. Perhaps it actually happens sooner, however, like early 20's.