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Could we talk about forgiveness?

(@jeanne-mayell)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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For me personally, forgiveness is the most important journey to be on right now in a world that demands that we evolve to get through. For me, forgiveness involves a vertical climb carrying heavy weight.

Is there someone you can't forgive?  Is there someone who can't forgive you? 

I have seen a path to forgiveness in my own life, and it asks a lot of me, often it asks me to work harder than I want. It asks me to become a bigger more open hearted person than I have been.

It asks me also to take a look at myself and the wounds I've inflicted on others.  Where I've done harm, I wonder, do I deserve to be forgiven for what I've done? I would say, yes, because I understand what life experiences led to my harsh actions. So then why wouldn't my perpetrators deserve the same understanding from me? 

I also know that holding anger in my heart harms me. But to truly forgive, I feel I have to come to some kind of karmic balance. I have to weigh my actions against their actions against me which means I shouldn't throw stones at them until I look at the harm I've done others. So withholding forgiveness of others isn't justified until I've examined my behaviors over the years. 

Also, for me, forgiveness is a path, a new learned behavior, not just a momentary act.  I've forgiven people, only to fall back into anger and resentment when I'm over tired or overworked. So it was a failed forgiveness. It takes more than a momentary gesture.  I have to take better care of myself in order to forgive and evolve. 

I also find it harder to forgive when the perpetrator is clueless or unrepentant. But even in those cases, being unforgiving harms me because I can't love this world if I have to exclude them from my kind regard because they are part of this world. 

You may find much wisdom from Maria Popover's treatise on this topic: 

Repentance, Repair, and What True Forgiveness Takes. To forgive is to assume a larger identity than the person who was first hurt,” poet and philosopher David Whyte wrote in his reckoning with the depths of life.

 



   
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(@cindy)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 533
 

I'm going to chime in here, and many of you have heard me say this here before, so feel free to scroll. 

People often have a hard time forgiving for the simple reason that they are confused in what it means. It is erroneous to think that forgiveness means that the action somehow becomes ok. Baloney. Wrong is wrong, and forgiveness doesn't change that. Forgiveness is letting go. Forgiveness is not letting those wrong actions have any further power in your life. It's about healing yourself, not those who have done wrong. Your letting go can have healing power for the offender, but that's not your responsibility. When traumatized, many people can't let go, so the past actions remain a factor in the control of our lives. Letting go puts us squarely back in the driver seat. 

Another stumbling block to forgiveness is accountability. Sometimes it's much easier to forgive someone who has suffered visible repercussions for what they've done. Once they've been 'punished', forgiveness is sometimes easier. It can be hard to forgive those who haven't suffered visible repercussions. Let's dissect this. First, I purposely used the term visible for a reason. Just because we haven't seen the repercussions, doesn't mean that the individual didn't pay a price, it just means we haven't seen it. If a tree falls in the woods and no one witnesses it, did it really fall? So we shouldn't pre-judge whether someone's paid their Karmic debt. Surely, we do know some who have not paid-say the thief who didn't go to jail. They may not have paid legally, but do we know what price they've paid Karmically? We're not the jury and judge to make such decisions. When we know this, it's easier to let go and forgive. Maybe we're not supposed to see what they've paid, or when they're going to pay it. Trust in the universe to apply their rules at the right time, place & circumstances. We aren't the ones writing the lesson plans for that person's life-the universe is. 

Remember, how others treat you is their Karma. How you react is yours. Likewise, how you treat others is your Karma, and how they react is theirs

I'm not always good at forgiveness, but I've greatly improved using the above. I figure if I didn't see their repayment, punishment, etc., I wasn't meant to. It may come after they pass, or in the next lifetime. If I'm wrong, what have I lost? For me, it's a win-win. I get to let go, and regain control over an aspect of my life. If I go to my grave and am wrong, they won't ever pay, the peace of mind I got from my belief still makes me a winner in the situation. 

When someone you thought you'd forgiven pushes your buttons (we all have them in our lives) and makes you think you've failed, don't fret. You didn't fail. You stumbled. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again (as the song says).



   
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(@raincloud)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 332
 

@jeanne-mayell 

I agree that forgiveness is a path but would like to add that it could be counterproductive to try to force oneself to forgive another when one is not ready or still feeling wounded. As Jeanne and Cindy talk about in different ways, forgiveness can take time and work.

I have several people in my life who repeat behaviors for which I have forgiven them in the past. (some pretty egregious.)  In these two cases "letting go" as Cindy mentions is the best I can do. I do not dwell on the perceived harms nor wish the perpetrators ill, but I do my best to banish them from my thoughts and feelings and that is the best I can do.



   
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(@liln22)
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Posts: 57
 

I think forgiveness is an individual journey that is unique to each person. It's alot like grief and in some cases is actually grieving the loss of trust to someone else. I also find that sometimes its harder to forgive a wrong to someone I love or care about then to myself. I have something that I consider a betrayal to my grandmother that I still struggle to get beyond even though she has been gone a long time. Also, just like in the grieving process, some people push others to forgive before they are ready. I don't think you can truly reach a true forgiveness until you resolve all the feelings, conflicts and what it is that hurt you the most through whatever happened. I've had some things in my life that I thought I had gotten past and then years later something would happen that brought it all back. For example, there was someone who was a bully when I was in school and I was one of his targets. Its been a couple decades since then and I'm not the same person as I was then. I thought I was way passed all of that but then I saw a mention of this guy on a school newsletter. He had moved to my city and and he was so happy and successful.  It caught me off guard of how betrayed and angry I felt after all these years...where was the karma for him? He hurt so many people and destroyed quite a few lives and he was happy. I didn't realize how deep those feelings still were. It shook me a little that it still had to power to hurt so much.  Its a learning process. The deeper the hurt and anger then the harder it is to let go of it sometimes. It also makes it harder to put yourself out there to others so that you are vulnerable to that hurt again. I often think that forgiveness is more about your own vulnerability and allowing yourself to being open to that again then the actual other person or incident. I also don't think you should ever make someone feel bad if they struggle with forgiving someone else or moving on. Even when you know it would be better, it doesn't invalidate your hurt, anger or struggle.



   
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(@Anonymous 1233)
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 238
 

@cindy Well said. Forgiveness is complicated with many layers but your words simplify the process.

"Remember, how others treat you is their Karma. How you react is yours. Likewise, how you treat others is your Karma, and how they react is theirs." 

 



   
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(@ana)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1021
 

@jeanne-mayell 

I can forgive , but I do not forget. 

RE :

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

--Maya Angelou

 



   
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(@luminous)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 398
 
I am all for forgiving and always behind giving people second chances, because I would always rather have a friend than an enemy, and if I had done something wrong, then I too would want the opportunity to redeem myself.
 
However, some people are just nasty pieces of work, that no matter how much you try to forgive them, or give them second, fourth, or fifth chances, they will always want to carry on with their behaviour.
 
As long as these people continue to see no wrong in what they are doing, or have no interest in seeing things from another perspective, then these people are best avoided and cut off from your life - because being around these types of people can be extremely damaging.
 
In my case, I have met such people over the years, particularly in healthcare which I am extremely reliant on for all kinds of medical needs and there has been both physical and mental abuse. I am still traumatised from it. This is actually the first time I have shared this online. I am still suffering traumatic memories from people who have deliberately hurt me because of their ego, and who thought I was just a pain in the ass who was too much work, so they did not respect me as a person, and thought it was OK for them to do what they did to me.
 
We also see in society a systemic problem in both our political institutions right now - with Republicans in the US and Conservatives over here in the UK, who are deliberately, in a very calculated manner, hurting people for their own selfish interests and gain. They have also been able to get to the top of these privileged positions of power and just absolutely abuse it, with no shame or regret.
 
For such people, who want to deliberately take advantage of people from positions of privilege and power, then I am sorry to say, but I don't think we should forgive easily when they have caused so much suffering. They need to learn what they are doing is WRONG, and not be allowed to ever repeat it again. When we are too passive it makes them think there is no consequences for their actions and they keep doing it, and these people need to learn. 
 
Unfortunately, for me, the people who were like this to me, are still unanswerable for what they have done. So I still live with this pain and trauma from the past and they get away it. So that is why I have said some people need to learn otherwise they see no wrong. 
 
So, no, I do not think we should always forgive. I think people need to learn and understand they cannot walk through life treating people this way, otherwise they just keep hurting more and more people.
 
For me, I have tried my best to cut these people who have harmed me out of my life. I don't wish to see these people anymore. So, I need to have space, because being around them brings up a lot of painful memories of the past. Every day I am reminded of my past and there are certainly some massive triggers for me that I am still dealing with, but for my own protection, I have to try and move on and then hopefully in time, I can try to heal.
 


   
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(@jeanne-mayell)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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Topic starter  

@raincloud I totally agree with you that forgiveness can't be forced on anyone. That is why I was careful in my post to keep referring to my own personal path of forgiveness.  For me, forgiveness is a form of inner growth. It happens at our own pace and according to our own values. The ultimate outcome is that we feel more at peace with the world. 

In my view, forgiveness has nothing to do with allowing the perpetrator into our lives.  If the perpetrator is hurtful to us, then we need to protect ourselves.  It has more to do with our internal process. With how we regard that person and whether we can come to peace about the world in which we live that allowed that person to do what they did. 

I also do not see forgiveness as condoning the actions of the perpetrator, or reestablishing a working relationship with them.  To me it is about reaching an understanding of the forces that let that person to do what they did.

So, as Cindy wrote, forgiveness is something we do on our own, within our own hearts, and it has little to do with the other person.  It's our own inner action, our response to something that happened in the world.  

But it does also involve understanding why the person did what they did, and in a sense, forgiving them because we see what made them the way they are. We don't condone their acts.  We don't befriend them necessarily.  But we do "see" how they came to commit those acts. We may even feel sympathy for them in the way that we might feel sympathy if they were are own children who came to commit a bad act.



   
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(@thebeast)
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The thing about trauma and hurt is that you need to accept that it was not your fault. Recognize that bad things happen to everyone. Wolfs and bears exist among us. Little Red Riding Hood was never at fault for her clothing and never were you. Devoid of empathy, many people do prey. How easy it is to blame the victim and keep on preying and preying. You should never accept that. Do not trust any word they thrust into your heart. These are just daggers trying to pin you down, so they can have it easy the next time they attack. Push forward and overcome. You will need this strength. It will build you up.

Some people are at that stage, but I believe that there is still some humanity left in them. Could there be a life without awakening? Could there be existence without the chance to realize your own mistakes, put an end to them and repay the harm you did, in this or the next life? I believe that spirituality allows for redemption. Can a life be wasted? Should anyone be abandoned into the fires and pits? Could not the millennia of human existence provide you with the chance to find yourself and repay your mistakes? I believe with all my heart in the safeguard of the victims, but I cannot abandon a fellow person, no matter how deep he dug himself into. 

Canine love. You get ignored, fed scraps, untreated from disease, beaten up, run over, abandoned and starved to death. And still, you love. You love with all your heart the perpetrator. Unconditionally. Can we learn from a animal? Should we abdicate the throne of absolute human superiority? Yes, you can!

One day the offender will come back to you. And you will see within his heart that he no longer is the person he used to be. He will repay all the harm he did to you and in between tales of how many people he finally learned to help, thanks to you, he will ask for your forgiveness. Then you will realize that your sacrifice was his salvation. A man became the lamb. You, savior. 

  



   
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(@raincloud)
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@jeanne-mayell 

Well said.



   
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