[Closed] Joe Biden

Is he a politician? I saw some footage on the news here and to be honest it looked like creepy behaviour.  

I like Joe Biden, even if I think maybe his time has passed. I don't think what he's done is harassment although it's not really appropriate. I remember Obama making comments during his first term about odd things Biden would say. He just kind of steps in it every so often. That said, I have a very dense feeling about where all of this is coming from. It's a set up by people who want to take him down. I also get a bad feeling about Bernie Sanders. I think his supporters are behind some of this. Legitimate criticism is one thing, but tearing other dems apart is not how to win elections. Makes me wonder whether the Bernie people will be as disruptive in the next election as they were in the last one. 

So here's how Nancy Pelosi has responded to the Biden chatter. In an interview with Politico today, her advice to Biden was to "Just pretend that you have a cold and I have a cold...Join the straight-arm club with me...He's an affectionate person, to children, to senior citizens, but that's just not the way. I don't think it's disqualifying...He has to understand in the world that we're in now that people's space is important to them, and what's more important is how they receive it and not necessarily how you intended it."

I too share Pelosi's thoughts. Biden's actions certainly are not harassment, nor do they disqualify him, but it would do him well to consider how his affections are perceived by both the receiver and the onlooker. And as voters, we have to consider whether we really want a septuagenarian with a tendency to "step in it" to become our nation's most public citizen. So I'm actually glad Amy Lappos and Lucy Flores are talking about their experiences. For better or worse, we live in a videocam age, so we have to talk about the "creepy Uncle Joe" factor.

Lynn, I wouldn't be surprised if some "dirtbag left" supporters of Sanders are trying to tar Joe Biden. But I'm more concerned about rightwing provocateurs attacking Democratic candidates because of perceived misbehavior. After years of Democrats decrying T's boorishness, they're looking for the first chance to cry "hypocrisy!" We've seen that process unfold in Virginia state politics. 

I've always liked Joe Biden.  I sense that Biden is, by nature, a touchy-feely kind of guy.  I also think he comes from the old school, good-old-boy politics of glad-handing.   He's operated this way for decades, and I think that over the years, it has made some women uncomfortable.  But  because he is powerful and has a larger-than-life presence, I imagine that many of these women swallowed their discomfort and chose not to speak up, telling themselves it's no big deal,  just Joe being Joe.   I don't know where Biden is with the #Metoo movement,  but I'm thinking that up until now, maybe he's been a little clueless.   I have read from various sources that Biden is someone who can and has learned from his mistakes.  This may be an educational moment for him.   But I do think his days with the uninvited bear hugs are over.

I also agree that there is political motivation behind this, but I have no sense from where.

This is such a fragile time, insofar as women are bravely speaking out and some men might be perplexed or even frightened by the #Metoo movement.   We're all experiencing growing pains.  We're all feeling our way, and are bound to make mistakes.  I remember years ago, I worked with a guy who was kind, affable and affectionate by nature.  Energetically I never felt any discomfort when he would put his arm around my shoulder, and in fact, I often would respond in kind.  But I worked with a woman who lodged a complaint against him with human resources.  He was embarrassed and totally baffled, since she never told him of her discomfort.   After the dust settled, I noticed him stiffen and become very quiet whenever she was in the same room with him.  I found it all very sad.

And yet, there were times in my own life when my entire body would tighten if a particular male acquaintance or co-worker came into the room, or even worse,  stood too close to me.   It was a gut thing.  And there have been times when  someone crossed the line, but I didn't want to make a scene.  About 30+ years ago, I was going to a business meeting and shared a taxi with a stranger, a powerful head of a government agency.  He asked about my work, where I was going, etc. and we exchanged business cards.  I sensed that he also had ulterior motives, but I figured I could work around that and believed he would be a good business contact.  As I was leaving the taxi, he patted me on my thigh and said "I'll be in touch."  At that moment I wanted to say, "what the hell do you think you're doing?", but I didn't want to make a scene in front of the taxi driver.   I'm embarrassed even admitting that.  To this day I'm sorry that I didn't smack him.   But back in those days, that's what many women did to navigate through life (except, maybe, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Katherine Hepburn!).  

By the way -- he did end up calling me, and after I was unsuccessful in avoiding his calls, I told him that I wasn't really interested in meeting for lunch, since he wasn't really interested in doing business.   

My mom told me many, many years ago, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” It had a big impact on me. I think it is insensitive to assume what another person needs emotionally. It can cause others great harm. 

Many people allow their boundaries to be violated for a variety of reasons. I don’t doubt that Joe Biden has a good heart. I am very uncomfortable with his behavior. It gives me the creeps. I’m shocked this issue hasn’t come up a lot sooner.  

Stardancer,

Your mother was very wise!

I believe Joe Biden is a good person. I don't think he should run in 2020.His apologies for his role in the Anita Hill/Thomas hearings are too little too late.

I do however give him a fair amount of credit for NOT issuing a b.s. non-apology apology. He did say "I am willing to listen respectfully." That's huge. No other male in a position of power has said that so far. He earned some respect from me for that.

In my opinion, the Franken situation was a total frame job. What Biden has done over the years is a bit worse IMHO, and what I don't understand is why Nancy Pelosi didn't take him aside years ago to clue him in, since they were peers.

If Biden drops out, I'm not going to shed a tear over it. He's had his time. In fact, I believe NO ONE over the age of 70 should be running for president, and anyone over the age of 60 should have a full neuropsychological eval in addition to a physical one (from real doctors, it needs to be said). I've had quite enough of deranged old men running this country into the ground, thank you very much.

As for the intuitive side of things, all I get when I reflect on "Uncle Joe" is just a kind of old timey cluelessness despite his intelligence. I also get that because he has lost so many loved ones in his lifetime, that he craves human connection on a physical (but not necessarily sexual) level. I keep seeing him sitting alone, sad but trying to focus on tasks at hand to distract himself. I think he would benefit greatly from hug therapy (not kidding). Because he holds so much power, he can't lower his pride to ask, so he just "goes for it". I get NO sense of malicious intent, manipulation or sociopathy.

I wish we could start a campaign to have anyone willing to line up to give him hugs, I think it would heal him greatly.

My father was a bear hugger. He was very affectionate with us as children, giving many hugs and kisses etc. I don't think my grandparents were as effusive and he was the eldest, with four brothers behind him so my grandmother was very busy with babies when she was not working. He had a difficult personality so I think his family almost tiptoed about him. Maybe his expressions of affection to us were what he felt a large lack of in his own life. 

I know of many people in my life who are physically affectionate and I am also to a certain extent, particularly at work because I am a nurse... that is part of the job. Today I held a woman's hand until side effects of a medication given during a test wore off. I barely knew her name but she needed someone to anchor her. I have hugged people, rubbed their backs, squeezed their shoulders, hands, given kisses on the cheeks of elderly... most people as the get older are touched less and less, particularly affectionate/gestures of support and I think as a society, to outlaw spontaneous affection is a grave mistake.
I know that there are people with PTSD etc. that have issues with this but I would encourage cognitive behavioral treatment to overcome such high levels of anxiety associated with benign touch. Also, if it is something that distressing, just say something about it. 

In the 1990s I worked in a law office and my boss, the partner of the firm had a habit of paternally rubbing my back/shoulder and at one point, I think because he came back after a liquid lunch and the smell of alcohol really bothered me (my father was also an alcoholic), I asked him not to do that anymore, that it made me feel uncomfortable. It was very awkward. I knew he meant nothing by it sexually, (he was being paternal) but he apologized and never did it again and did not fire me or give me any problem about it. So I understand about power differences and really, to be respected, you must also be respectful and give the other person the benefit of the doubt - and expect they will respond as a thoughtful considerate human.

So, this is one reason why I feel Lucy has introduced a very malignant smear in this campaign. She had no respect for Vice President Biden, no courtesy to tell him not to touch her (although I saw in at least two pictures of the event that she was casually touching him as well) and instead of being grateful for his efforts in helping her in her campaign, she saved this scrap of social awkwardness, nursed this little resentment to attack his character at such a dire time for us in this nation while we have a madman in the White House for some media exposure, and perhaps political advantage to a candidate she supports. It is the same reason I cannot ever really feel too badly for Monica Lewinsky because if her motives were of such a starstruck girl in love, why save the blue dress? I believe in listening to all women, giving them a fair hearing, a sympathetic ear but I am not going to believe them all. In giving all women a hearing, I think we should also be willing to offer benefit of the doubt when it comes to intent to men and give them the opportunity to be innocent until proven guilty as provided by the law of our land. I cannot believe that the people who have stepped forward could not just call him or ask to talk to him about this, face to face-- he has to be one of the most approachable men in politics.

Rowsella,

I wish you had been my nurse during some of my scary medical moments.   You are very caring.  I agree with you that the elderly are touched less and less.  I've witnessed the power of touch when I would visit my mother when she was in a nursing facility with Alzheimer's.  It was a great facility, and the nursing staff and aides were so caring.  You could see the residents light up when their shoulders were rubbed ... or even just the gentle touch of someone's hand on theirs.  

Touch has the power to heal, and it also has the power to cause pain.  I've known people with PTSD, and a number of things can trigger them.  And in general,  I think we have to be cognizant of other people's boundaries, and not assume.  And yet ... I understand what you mean about spontaneous affection.  Last week I went to a local Greek deli for the first time.  The owner, who is 100% Greek, was warm and gregarious.  There appeared to be a number of regulars there for lunch, because he seemed to know everyone's name and greeted them warmly, sometimes physically.  When he brought out my carryout, he thanked me, hugged me, and kissed my cheek.  I was initially surprised but didn't feel offended; it seemed like the most natural thing in the world.   He felt safe to me -- good energy.  Had he not been spontaneous, I would have missed out on the experience. 

I think when there is an imbalance of power, it can get tricky.  That may be why some women hesitate and don't say anything at that moment.  I admire your courage in telling your boss that you felt uncomfortable, and am glad that it turned out well.  I agree that it's important to speak out at the time if you feel your boundaries have been violated.  

This seems so complicated to me.  Something to think more about.