@journeywithme2 Yes, that is a horrifying (if not surprising) article. I can't believe anyone would be surprised he feels that way after the things he said about McCain and Khan. Khan's father said it way back in 2016: "he has no idea what service and sacrifice is." How did this country ever elect him after that, it Breaks my heart.
Reading that article led me to this interview between an Atlantic reporter and Peter Strozk, which corroborates much of what @jeannemayell and others have been saying about Trump's connections to Russia. It also sheds some light on the limitations of our intelligence organizations - and the Mueller investigation - when it came to investigating unofficial connections, like Trump's connections to Russian oligarchs as opposed to Russian government officials. It highlights how Russia's tactics have matured and we have not caught up to them. It is slightly terrifying but sounds so much like what jeanne and others have been saying all along about Trump being compromised.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/anne-applebaum-interviews-peter-strzok/616003/
I think we all pray every day that he will go away. While none of us believe that all the country's problems will be solved once he leaves, I think I speak for everyone that his departure would help limit the damage and allow light workers to start the slow road to recovery.
I notice with amusement that Trump was planning to shut down the military newspaper "Stars and Stripes" today, but has since reversed himself. This could be one of two things:
(1) Trump is trying to distract from the Atlantic story about how he called WWI soldiers who dies "losers" and "suckers." He hopes that by causing a threat to the "Stars and Stripes" via his administration, and then coming in alone to save it, he can use the story to say "see, I love the military! I saved their paper!"
If this is the case, no one is going to fall for it.
(2) As I mentioned before, Trump is a bully, and bullies are essentially cowards at heart. If faced with massive backlash, they cave. When word about the "Stars and Stripes" hit the media, the outrage was so great that Trump came up with this "I would never plan to shut down a military newspaper!" story in hopes we believe him.
It is my belief that if Trump is faced with just enough backlash, then he may actually resign before the election. He won't resign over this, of course. But if (as I suspect) Trump's enemies start releasing damaging information throughout the month of October and Trump sees that he will lose, then he may resign before the election takes place.
Why would he do this? Simple. If he runs and loses, he will eventually be kicked out at the very latest by January 20, 2021 (provided Biden doesn't concede and the election is still in doubt, of course.) If this happens, Pelosi becomes President, and he is in big trouble, as she can order for him to be thrown out of the White House pending a new election or, at the very worst, put him under house arrest for treason.
Now, if Trump feels that he is going to lose in October, he will balk like the coward he is and resign before the election. He will do this for the following reasons:
1. If he runs and loses, then he is a "loser," and no matter what excuses he comes up with, he will be a loser for all time. I don't think he can handle that. It would be far easier for him to resign and then play the "victim" while nursing his ego that "if he had stayed on the ticket, the Republican party wouldn't have lost so badly! People only came to vote for me! If I had stayed, the Republican party would have stayed in control!" Basically, anything that will keep him from facing the public's opinion of his actions.
2. If he resigns and leaves office, he can appoint Pence to take over. Pence can then pardon Trump and his family. Remember, while a Vice President who takes over for a President can technically pardon him (Ford did this for Nixon), there is a lot of doubt that Trump can pardon himself, and I am willing to bet that Gorsurch and Roberts will find that a sitting President cannot pardon himself, seeing as to how they want to follow the Constitution, even at the expense of "conservative" positions. But the only sure way that Trump can do this is if he does it before the election. Even if he loses and then resigns to allow Pence to finish his term, there is still doubt as to whether Pence will have that power to pardon at that point in that he would be acting as a proxy for Trump. So the only certain way Trump can save his family and himself from future federal charges is by having Pence pardon him if he resigns before November 3, 2020. Otherwise, the pardon would almost certainly be challenged and even brought before the Supreme Court with a good chance of being declared invalid.
I sincerely hope my instinct is correct and that Trump's enemies are waiting in the wings with damaging information ready to release at the right time to where Trump can be worn down to where resignation is the only way he can save face and get a slight victory out of it. Knowing him, he will probably fake a heart attack or something, and then blame the media and Democrats for "harassing him and treating him so bad" that the stress led to a heart attack. I don't have the gift of foresight, so I guess we will see.
Allyn,
I agree almost completely, although I think you think his resignation is more of a possibility than I do. I certainly hope your hunch is correct about more damaging information to come. I think there are pros and cons to his resignation at this point in time.
Now people are mad as hell about this, as well they should be, but what is it going to take to get everyone to realize he is a TRAITOR. The report about Russian bounties on the heads of our soldiers wasn't enough? Or how he's been insulting military members and their families since before the election? Or his hundreds and hundreds of Russian connections?
The argument has been made that people have reasons like their upbringing, their life experiences, ect, for having and holding the beliefs they do, and that is true, of course, BUT-there comes a point where you have to put right and wrong above what you believe, and no matter how you think about any given topic, almost everyone knows the difference.
Take abortion. It's a hot-button issue, but if, and I believe, when, it comes out that T. has paid for abortions for his mistresses, will his supporters turn on him? Nope. They'll fall to their knees, sobbing, and declare it God's will, that those children weren't meant to be born. I just can't stomach the hypocrisy.
I won't write what I want to say about T. supporters because I know people here have them in their lives, but for me personally, my disgust is complete.
Actually I think resignation is even more likely now than ever. The military "losers and suckers" shows how much disdain he has for losing or sacrificing of any kind. He wont handle losing an election and by pissing off the military like he has, it will bring him that much closer to certain defeat.
I see no legal challenges to Pence pardoning Trump and his family, as Ford set the precedent. There will be blowback from the left, of course, but I feel its best for the country for him not to be prosecuted(I know thats going to ruffle feathers here but hear me out). Going after Trump criminally will just further his martyrdom and keep his psychotic base fueled even longer and more apt to shed innocent blood. We just need to move past this entirely and keep it firmly in our rearview to heal and grow from it with minimal long term damage. His resignation pre-election also keep his base from protesting any election loss violently. The best scenario for the US is for him to not make it til 11/3 still on the ballot and whatever undeserved benefit that allows him, so be it in my eyes. Leave karma and the universe to handle him how they so choose.
If he gets the pardon from Pence he is free federally, and I'm sure Cuomo would let him off in NY if he agreed to resign. Im not sure NY Governors power but Im confident a deal can be made there
By the way, Agent Orange just did it again. He gave too much info in his denial of the John Kelly story during his presser. He said Kelly was burned out, couldn't handle the job, and badmouthed him, when Kelly wasn't named as a source. He tried to walk it back a little but damage was done.
What I like about that Alantic story is that the Atlantic is not considered a leftist publication. It's somewhat middle of the road. Of course the Right thinks it's left but it is more center.
The issue with the US right now is that we have been dragged SO far to the right that centrism appears leftist and progressivism appears bolshevik.
MAS,
I disagree about Cuomo, but I don't understand all the legalese of it. I think the scope of the investigations against T. are massive, the public at large knows very little of what's going on behind the scenes.
I do know that he has completely defiled the Office of the Presidency in ways I never dreamed, and I'm sick to death of him.
Yea, he didn't even listen to the actual question asked either. He was asked what we were supposed to read of the fact that John Kelly had not come out to deny the reports. Instead of saying something benign he decides to go on an attack about Kelly for not doing a good job, being eaten up by this world, being exhausted, not able to function and not being unable to handle the pressure of his job.
Sounds like he was describing himself though being around Trump for just a few moments would drain anybody's energy.
We just need to move past this entirely and keep it firmly in our rearview to heal and grow from it with minimal long term damage.
No. Just No. Absolutely not. I don't care if it takes years, he and his cronies must face justice and punishment for what they have done to this country.
He won't resign for one simple reason. He is indicted and knows it. Once the safety net of the Oval Office is gone, that's it.
And that's why he's trying so hard to steal the election, so he can stave that off for another four years while he removes/covers up as much as he can.
I'm sure Cuomo would let him off in NY if he agreed to resign. Im not sure NY Governors power but Im confident a deal can be made there
Again, I disagree. Cuomo has his own issues, but as much as he has opposed the orange one for the last four years, there's no way - barring blackmail, which I wouldn't put past Orangina and his minions - Cuomo will make any deal.
Sounds like he was describing himself
If you notice, almost all of the things he's accused others of doing, he's guilty of, and he knows it. It's classic projection.
Ugh. So true. But then I iike the Atlantic for all the reasons Jeanne said. What a crazy and incredibly trying to always swing back into balance with each and every knee jerking event or heavier imbalance world and time we are in now.
Our great experiment US world is failing in so many many ways right now. Whack-a-mole times
No wonder we're all so dizzy wuth our heads spinning trying to keep up with the energy of actions and reactions.
I figured that would get some backlash, and rightfully so. I completely agree with the need for him to suffer over this, but I also feel that his suffering would just extend our suffering as well, and Lord knows we have been thru a lot.
Maybe its just my beliefs/faith/whatever you call it, but Im confident he will get his no matter what comes during his life. I also don't think there is anything we can do to a 74 year old man that would appropriately make up for what he has done to the world. Im willing to let him walk in exchange for a guarantee that no more damage be done and let him deal with whatever karma has in store for him. Also, even if we prosecute, he has gotten so good at delaying the courts that, with his current health and habits, he will never live long enough to see a verdict anyway. His kids and cronies will, but it will be strung out for possibly a decade in the court system before anything is actually done and that will extend our division as a country and make it irrepairable while he lives out his life at Mar a Lago in luxury
We all seem to sensing each in our own way, something big is due to help bring down Trump and possibly his whole corrupt administration. My hunch is it will have something to do with Maxwell and Epstein. No one escapes karma.
I understand your views, but I truly believe that there is a group or several groups of people waiting in the wings with damaging information on Trump. They have had YEARS to wait for this moment, and they are taking advantage of it.
Consider that the Fox News crowd pounced on the story of Pelosi not having a mask on in a salon just after she washed her hair (note: the video shows that the salon was practically empty at the time). My question-does anyone actually care when you have a President who never social distances, never wears a mask, makes fun of people who does. and basically denied the Covid-19 threat even as 185,000 have died since March?
And yet no one is mentioning the story. Not really. Have you seen any videos or tweets from people denouncing Pelosi? I certainly haven't. Yet I have seen quite a few videos from multiple people denouncing Trump on this issue concerning his disrespect to the military (which I note with great amusement that a journalist from Fox News actually confirmed a few of the facts from the Atlantic's story.)
Bottom line, this is only the beginning. Trump's enemies will drag this information into the light and wear him down just as surely as waves will wear away a sea side cliff. It is NOT A COINCIDENCE that this story was released now, just before early voting starts and after Trump has made threats to cheat on the election via the post office and recently with his suggestion to North Carolina to vote twice (once by mail ballot and once in person). Trump's enemies are sending a message to him. Basically, if he tries to steal the election and tries to employee the military to help them, they will not do so. Most of the commanders today are holdovers from the Bush years when military service was bragged about with pride and was seen as proof of patriotism. Yet they have a draft dodger now who belittles prisoners of war, veterans, those who died in service, etc.
If January 20, 2021 rolls around, do you believe that the military will come to save Trump?
Even those commanders who are Republican and may dislike Biden knows that if (1) Biden wins but Trump refuses to concede or (2) the voting results are too close so as they are disputed, they will not come to Trump's aid if he tries to use them as a means to hold onto power. So if he disputes the election results, Pelosi becomes President on January 20, 2021, and by Constitutional authority, he can't be allowed to stay in the White House without her say-so (spoiler alert-she won't.) Long story short, if Trump tries to call out the military to stop the vote, to stop protestors, to organize a coup to stay, he will find himself without enough allies.
This is his fault, in that Trump has never taken steps to respect the military. His very public criticisms of people like McCain makes it almost impossible for anyone with a working brain to believe that he actually cares about them.
This will be the revenge of the Bush "Never Trumpers," who have ties with the current commanders now and who hate Trump with a passion. This story is to incite further disdain in the military against Trump. This story is basically Trump's enemies saying "Trump, if you try to steal the election, don't expect the military to back you up on this, because they will not risk their lives for someone who calls them 'losers.'"
This is why it is so crucial for Democrats to win the Senate this election. If we win control and have a Democratic controlled House and Senate, then Trump is done. He can't pardon himself (he can try, but it will likely be overturned by Roberts and the majority of the Supreme Court, who will read the Constitution and likely find that the balance of powers are such that a President simply can't pardon himself, since no one is above the law.) If he tries to stir up Congress to help him, it won't work because the Congress will be in Democrats hands, who can always chose to impeach him again and put pressure on the remaining Republican Senators who face re-election in 2022. At worse, they can impede him at every turn.
As to your assessment about Trump supporters, I agree with you there. They would worship Trump if they found out he killed and then ate a baby. They have dwelled in darkness for so long that they can't be helped, and I have given up trying.
But there is still a small sliver of voters who are "Trump supporters" who can be encouraged to vote for Biden or, at worst, sit out and not vote at all. That is why this story is important, in that it is targeting that small number of military voters and their families. They hope to deaden enthusiasm for Trump. Even if they don't vote at all, that is still good because there are enough groups out there that will tip the balance for Biden. They are taking Republicans' playbook against Clinton in 2016 and are planning to use it against Trump now.
Final thought-Methinks that Trump's enemies have multiple strategies going on, given how Trump is so volatile and unpredictable. They will release these stories in hopes that Trump will resign before the election (by making up a fake health problem and resign with a least a little dignity.) If not, they will release the truly damaging stories starting in October, in hopes that the Republican base and McConnell will force Trump to resign to save face (again, with a fake health story, but no one would believe it at that point.) If that fails, then they will hope that the vote total for Biden is so overwhelming come election day that Trump will realize he can't win his conspiracy theories. Or, if Trump does try to incite violence and/or mess with the election results so much that they are disputed, then Pelosi will take care of him on January 20, 2021, with the military staying out of it.
And, as much as it pains me to say it, I feel that Trump has made some enemies with our investigators and spies (FBI, CIA, etc.) He has insulted them for years and belittled any intelligence they give. It honestly would not surprise me if Trump had a little "accident," or, more likely, a "heart attack" that incapacitates him. Yes, you read this correctly. I truly believe that there is a small possibility that Trump's enemies in the intelligence community may poison him with something to take him out of the race if they feel that he is simply too much of a threat to keep around during the election.
Do I want this to happen? NO!!!! (I have a cherished fantasy of him bursting to tears as they drag him away in handcuffs). But is this possible? Yes, if one of Trump's enemies decides that it is simply too dangerous to keep him around, although I suspect that they will merely incapacitate him by giving him something that may resemble the symptoms of a stroke (any obvious attempts on Trump's life will cause the right to riot)
That thought has crossed my mind as well. I definitely don't want it to happen, but have had the inkling that an allied nation(or someone who was an ally pre-Trump) might make a drastic move to preserve the US standing in the world, which would preserve their own national security.