No, Mueller testifying behind closed doors will not be quite the same as having him appear in a public hearing.
I get that Pelosi does not want to do this, only to have it go to the Senate and not be tried properly, or tried and not produce an impeachment consensus.
However, what they really need to be doing now according to some legal experts and DC folks that I read is holding impeachment inquiries. If the house were to hold impeachment hearings to determine if articles of impeachment are warranted, they could call witnesses and you get the public to hear what some of these witnesses have to say firsthand. You'll hear the McGahns, and the Cohens and such telling their versions of the story. Meanwhile, you'll still have the news covering things like the money laundering issues at Deutche Bank. Once the public starts hearing what has really been going on, not what they are being fed by their media choices, you'll see Rumpel's 38% approval rating sink even lower. You'll see more republicans who haven't read the report actually sit up and notice and join Justin Amash.
They need to start getting tough on those who don't respond to a subpoena as well. Fine them, don't just hold a hearing and find them in contempt with no consequences. If the fines don't work, then let them face jail time.
Mueller may not be testifying soon. However I found it interesting that Rex Tillerson was spotted today going into the house building where the offices of the chairs of the Foreign Affairs committee reside. He's been quoted as saying "So often the president would say, here's what I want to do and here's how I want to do it, and I would have to say to him, Mr. President, I understand what you want to do but you can't do it that way. It violates the law." Tillerson has also said he knows there was Russian interference in our election. He was one of the only US individuals in the room when Rumpus met with Putin in Germany.
Not only that The Washington Post reported tonight that they got their hands on an internal IRS memo draft from last fall that says that they have to turn over his taxes unless he invokes executive privilege. There is no basis or precedent for that.
Nadler has also subpoenaed Hope Hicks and Annie Donaldson.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I've always felt he'll be gone. Tho not in the year I felt when he was first elected. Many of you may not see an impeachment, and maybe there won't be one. Impeachment hearings in the House could well do the trick. He could quit, be forced out, or have health issues related to all this that get him out before impeachment is an issue.
Honestly, I think the problem with Pelosi and all the other House D leaders is they are living in the past, playing a 1990s-2000 game plan in a 2020 world. In the 80s and 90s, the pendulum swung back to a more conservative view and you had to be a "nice" D to survive. Now, the pendulum has swung the other direction, but they are still trying to use the 90s playbook.
Obama succeeded in my view because he abandoned the 90s D mold. But the House leadership is still stuck there.
As I watch all this as an older boomer, I keep thinking that what's killing this country is a 90s mindset in a 2020 world. I like Pelosi, Feinstein, Clyburn, but they are stuck in the past. Experience is good when it guides you strategically but it's bad when it makes you overly cautious. I feel like we're in the latter situation.
It's been almost 40 yrs since Bill Clinton & Al Gore came along as 40-something "can't stop thinking about tomorrow" folks. Pelosi, Clyburn, Feinstein, all the House and Senate leadership is really that generation (my generation and even older). It's clear it's time for the mantle to be turned over to bolder voices that understand the current electorate. Ds are not going to win the folks stuck in the past -- they relate more to ppl like T and the turtle.
Re all this stuff going on, I firmly believe that Nancy is mainly scared, Mueller is scared. More concerned about their reputations than the country. Neither is really in a trap, only a trap of their own making that requires that they look a certain way. I've been thinking Mueller really isn't the hero he was made out to be -- if he cares more about his rep than the country, that's not a hero in my book. Amash is the model for "do the right thing", not either Pelosi or Mueller.
I know I'll get blowback for this but just my two cents and I'll leave it out there.
I feel sad that Mueller wants to "walk away" from all the hard work he did for almost two years. How could he, as a patriotic American citizen, want to wash his hands, especially because he KNOWS (if you read the actual report) Trump is guilty of crimes, but couldn't indict. If Nancy Pelosi keeps stalling, she will lose her base of support in the Democratic party.
hey mb, i also think that maybe Mueller is not the hero that we want and need. I mean, besides being a lifelong republican, he has been friends w Barr for decades (!). (i have had some pretty craptacular friends myself, but, damn!) It seems as if he took great care to not look anywhere that a crime may have occurred. Just not buying the poorly scripted animosity between Drumph and the fbi. Psycho-drama designed to make us feel that Mueller is sincere in his (lack) of findings.
Is this the same organization that put the thumb on the scales just before the election in 2016? That infiltrated and tried to destroy the Civil Rights movement? and the Anti-War movement? and the Black Panthers? Is this the same agency that was "protecting" us while MLK, JFK, RFK, Malcolm X, and so many others, were murdered in the streets? (funny, that never seems to happen to fascist pigs) Is this the same group that drew up plans to assasinate the Occupy Wallstreet activists? The same agency that works out of a building named after J Edgar Hoover, and never had the G__ damned decency to change the name over the front door? Is this who we really thought was going to help us?
Unk p:
It is too early to draw that conclusion about Mueller. Let him resign on May 31 as planned and see what happens in June.
Thanks for the info on Tillerson Cindy. Now that is very interesting news indeed.
I have felt for some time that Pelosi is holding on too tightly – almost like a mother who is afraid to let go of her child. Possessive. I can feel it and see it in her face. This is as much about Pelosi’s ego as it is her love for our country.
And I agree – I’m sick of their 80's-90’s political mindset. As an older boomer, we’ve had our chance – we’ve done some good things for this country, and made a royal mess of others. I’m not saying that Pelosi and the rest of us boomers can’t and shouldn’t still make a contribution -- there is infinite wisdom in these old bones – but it’s time for that rite of passage.
deetoo, that's exactly what I'm feeling about Pelosi. We've done some good and bad, but it's time to let that next gen make their moves. I like some guys like Ted Lieu, Eric Swalwell and so many of the D presidential candidates. This is such a different world and the old guard Ds are just out of touch in many ways, as much as it pains me to say it. Our boomer contributions are important to continue, but it's time to recognize the need for fresh blood and leadership.
Unk p, I don't mean to say that Mueller is a bad guy, but just not the perfect person we made him out to be. I think he's putting his own rep above country -- and the heroes of the world put what's right and best for the country/others above their own well being. I think he's a decent guy but is creating his own prison if that makes sense.
This morning Pelosi stated trump was engaged in a cover up. Then trump walks out of infrastructure meeting and has press conference in rose garden, rants and raves “he doesn’t do cover ups”. I got the impression he had this all planned out before hand, he was expecting Pelosi to announce impeachment hearings. Which he could use as a victim for his re-election bid. He’s angry she didn’t go for impeachment because everybody knows he always does cover ups.
I believe this is exactly what Nancy was anticipating. It's easy for us to sit here and criticize the Dems in the House. We are honest striaght forward thinking people. mango and his advisors are not any of those thngs. they are underhanded, dishonest. They play games to net gains for themselves with no adherence to the oaths that they took or the laws of our country. Getting rid of them is not going to be easy. They lie continualy and are as slippery as an eil. Sooner or later the people of this country are going to be tired of being put last in the eyes of the Rep government. Hopefully we won't have to wait until the 2020 election. As for Mueller, I think he is going to testify bt not until he is free of Barr an the DOJ.
Yes, I think Nancy is playing him like a fiddle in stating T is leading a cover-up. She is clearly moving toward impeachment, without saying the word that T can weaponize. And it's driving him insane.
I agree that Nancy drives him crazy. It's a sight to behold.
I really appreciate reading everyone's thoughtful views on this topic. It gives me a lot to think about. Scary times, and no playbook to follow.
I definitely don't attribute the political skill to Pelosi that many here do.
I remember the many losses and missteps -- from 2004, to completely dropping the ball on 2010 RedMap redistricting (I personally wrote her and the DNC about it multiple times, and now it's our achilles heel), to "you'll know what's in the ACA when we pass it" (really bad PR). I am personally ready to vote her out even though I supported her for speaker initially. We are here with a D House majority because of a the grassroots, not Pelosi or Schumer or Perez.
It's fine if ppl don't agree w me but I don't agree that this is all a masterful plan. I do think the hearings are a good idea as a story telling mechanism, but they are even dropping the ball on that, handing over the narrative to T and Rs on a daily basis.
The shift of states from purple to red from 2000 to now is a prime example at how Rs have outplayed Ds. We've had a few bright spots (Obama, the Blue Wave) but a master wouldn't have had all those losses and shifts in states. Her skill is writing legislation and vote wrangling, but I've never viewed her as a PR master or good predictor of state elections.
Every day with Twitler masquerading President is intolerable, but I believe Nancy Pelosi is master of her game with idiot.
The Senate will not convict, especially with the slimy, Russian-owned TraitorTurtle McConnell leading the pack. Then Twitler will sway the masses with his claims of exoneration.
The process needs to unfold. She will keep baiting him, getting him to lose his temper and put what an unstable moron he is on full display.
Irrefutable public proof needs to be presented. Mueller needs to testify. The tax returns, financial records, business dealings all need to be seen. Then we impeach.
We all know Republicans are aiding and defending a lying traitor, but once the undeniable evidence is laid out for the public to see, they will be be forced to make a very public choice between the USA or the snake.
I agree with you Polaberry. Trump knows/thinks that if he gets impeached the Senate will exonerate him and then he can use this for his re-election bid and to harrass us for 6 more years and to tell you the truth I dont know how much longer our country can take of this presidency. This is what Pelosi said to her colleagues:
WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., told her Democratic colleagues Thursday that President Donald Trump “wants to be impeached” so that he can be vindicated by the Senate.
She also said: But she continued to stress a focus on process. "I do think that impeachment is a very divisive place to go in our country," she said. "Get the facts to the American people in our investigation ... it may take us to a place that is unavoidable in terms of impeachment, but we’re not at that place."
I agree with Pelosi. Remember she is not dealing with a sane person. He is not right. He uses and will use everything and anything to get relected and vindicated. She cant start impeachment the Republicans will go thru the farce and then stand up for him and we loose again.
Look at what he did at the meeting on Wednesday with Pelosi and Schumer. It was all a politcal stunt for him to look tough. I loved what Pelosi said afterwards:
Pelosi said Thursday that the president pulled a "stunt" at the White House on Wednesday and "stormed out" of the room, throwing "another temper tantrum again."
"I pray for the president of the United States," she told reporters. "I wish that his family or his administration or his staff would have an intervention for the good of the country."
I just like everyone else would love to see this Human Imposter impeached but it must be done with care. This is a whole arena now. He has changed the rules of the game. If they try to impeach him and it fails, think of the consequences.
I watched her speech. She was amazing.
I completely get the feelings of anger and frustration with Pelosi, and others urging caution with impeachment. He deserves to be impeached immediately-the lying, obstruction of justice, treason & so on-but I believe Pelosi's strategy is to get the majority of the public behind it-while continuing to give the circus peanut enough rope to hang himself, which he will do & is doing.
I also think Pelosi and Schumer and Schiff know a heck of a lot more than they are saying. And who knows what Tillerson has told the committee. I'm sure Tillerson wouldn't mind grinding some axe against Twitler.
"I agree with Pelosi. Remember she is not dealing with a sane person. He is not right. He uses and will use everything and anything to get re-elected and vindicated."
Jessi, your thoughts and rationale exactly mirror mine. Trump wishes the Democrats would impeach him tomorrow. He reminds me of the trickster, Br'er rabbit, in the old Uncle Remus fable when Br'er over-dramatically pleaded, "Please, please don't throw me into the briar patch," knowing all the while that would be his salvation, since he was perfectly capable of squirming his way through and out of the briar patch's tangle of thorns.
There's a process to be gone through that will take time, and throughout that process more and more and more will be subpoenaed and leaked and ruled permissible, and more opportunities to get under his extremely thin skin will progressively occur (as Pelosi did yesterday and today) that will more completely expose him for the con-artist trickster that he is, not the victim. This longer process will drive him still crazier. (He's back to defensively pronouncing that he's "an extremely stable genius"!)
(Polarberry: You posted your thoughts as I was still writing mine. I agree with you 100%!)
Impeaching him now just gives him more firepower and confidence, which means he gets more agressive and more out of control. If you impeach now he will win that battle and thus the war. You cant shoot your last bullet until you have him in point blank range. (if hes impeached and not convicted, Dems have no other options other than a second impeachment and looking like fools)
Wait until you have enough evidence that they have to convict in the senate due to public opinion and a bulletproof case. They can also use the fact that they need a Dem senate to continue to stop him to increase turnout