@frank Yes, to my point - it will become endemic and the herd immunity will have to be very high. And we don't know yet about vaccine - there's some promising stuff going on, but nothing is guaranteed, and those little graphs @enkasongwriter posted are fairly useless.
I just saw a US map for states regarding their plans on reopening.
There sure is a lot of already partial re-open green across the country. More than I though. Less partial re-opening planned than I thought also. The red is mainly on the east and west coast.
That map looks eerily similar to the electoral college blue/red map from 2016... just sayin'...
I'm rethinking that Yes -No oracle spread I posted, asking when the pandemic will subside. It said that the virus would subside soon. Which it probably will ...subside. But it also showed the Fool card next to the part that said we'd be opening up the economy, which bugged me. He reminded me of Mango gleefully telling everyone it is safe to come out of our isolation.
It felt like it was telling me that fools would think the virus was over when it had just subsided. The darker images that show up later left me thinking that there will be hell to pay for opening up states too soon.
I'm questioning the study I posted as well. If the data used in the study is bad, then the study is bad. After @5LeafClover pointed out that in Texas her personal experience was that they were not testing people who had obvious symptoms, it means the data is likely bad, and we know how paltry the testing has been.
My true test of intuition is how I feel personally about going back into stores and how I feel about my loved ones going back to their jobs this summer. I do not feel good about it and have never felt good about getting back out this year. I want to feel optimistic about it because people need to work. But I feel so wary.
People ask how long it will take to get back to normal. This year has been the pivotal year we've seen coming for a long time. It is the year of learning lessons and pivoting from an old paradigm to a healthier kinder world.
Getting back to normal means ignoring the lessons that there can not be a return to business as usual without consequences.
Bill Mayer said it well the other night when he did his monologue from his back yard. He said, until we stop abusing animals for food and the land with factory farms, there is no recovery. Especially the abuse of animals which is horrible, unspeakable. I feel we will change our ways. But it won't be over night.
People are going to the parks in droves today in New York. At least the police are passing out face masks.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/02/nypd-swarms-new-york-parks-to-enforce-social-distancing/
I am feeling that the state will soft open on May 15 and fully open by late May.
Re the yes/no- this new interpretation is how I read it- having no tarot background but you sort of explained the cards and I felt like the fool and the soon weren’t that the virus would go away but that we would resume life and it would be foolish.
the hype is tantalizing, it’s almost summer we want to be out and about. I see people who were masking up and distancing 2 weeks ago not anymore. They feel like they did a good job but they don’t have the urgency to follow through anymore.
as a teacher I am concerned that there will be a push to return to school in the fall that will be problematic. This was too easy- but nothing has changed, there’s no treatment and no vaccine.
the bigger picture to me has something to do with what Bill Mayer said- this is a big opportunity to learn a lesson(s)- but we haven’t learned it yet and I think we are only leading up to the climax of the suffering- the narrative has always been about reopening the economy and getting back to normal. There hasn’t been real Mainstream discussion about how this system is not working, Mainstream acknowledgment about animal Life and Mother earth. When trump forced the meat Packing open I thought - oh this might be another opportunity to see how we needn’t be dependent on animal protein. We have a long way to go- it feels good to see pollution down- it could build a desire to keep it down among those who felt hopeless or unclear how.
I feel like there are many opportunities here and we’ve barely scratched the surface. Considering the size of a pandemic in terms of the earth sending us a lesson- (Compared to say Katrina)I think we’ve just started.
@jeanne-mayell In the past several months, I've seen the virus exemplified in a couple vicious and menacing forms (a shrewd and madly clawing feral cat; a mega-sized, razor-toothed science-fiction-type lizard/dinosaur monster with its ginormous glassy eyes peering into windows) with an all-devouring appetite ("I will kill you, or I will die"). But on 3 March the image I saw personifying the virus was that of an aging peasant woman dressed simply in drab colors, a timeless representation of poverty and unmet needs, existing pitifully but stubbornly, and I heard: "(it/the virus) will be back season after season." So, I take this to understand the virus is not going to go away any time soon, although it may appear to subside. And in time (thanks to effective treatments, herd immunity, a vaccine) it will be significantly weakened, but in the meantime we have much to learn. Perhaps this aging peasant image means it will linger mostly among the poorest and most marginalized--definitely not to be interpreted as a cause for relief. Or maybe it means it will be deceivingly disguised as weak when it's actually still a major threat. Or, more likely, it means that until we more honestly and adequately and sustainably address the proper reverence for and protective care of all people and all animals and all of nature it will hound us like a relentless beggar and there will be no real recovery. Like you, Jeanne, as I sit here on day 51 of strictly staying at home (but who's counting?!), I want to feel good about going back out this summer, traveling as planned and resuming a job teaching art to kids that I was so looking forward to, I want to feel good about resuming old routines and pursuing new ones this fall, I want to feel it's safe for my kids and my grandkids to go back out into the world this summer and fall, but I just don't. I've also had several strong dreams that this coming Christmastime will be a time requiring re-doubled precautions.
@enkasongwriter I hope you are wrong or we would have learned nothing. The cases will start to rise again & people will die.
You know, I was just thinking about the position of the Fool in that tarot spread and the way you phrased your question. I thought maybe it was saying that the silver bullet cures we've been pinning our hopes on are going to be disappointing, and that it's going to take a lot more trial and error before we have an effective treatment/vaccine. Your interpretation sounds just as valid too.
Even if I were more confident in my knowledge of the Tarot, I'd avoid using the yes/no spread when asking about the pandemic. It seems like one of the lessons of these times is that we have to learn to be comfortable with unknowing, with uncertainty (i.e., darkness). Globalized industrial culture likes to tell itself that it has all of the answers, or that when we throw enough money and can-do positivity at a problem, we'll have the answers soon enough. Now, with CoVid-19, the dark mother is chiding us for our self-satisfaction; we can't demand the light to miraculously return every time the going gets tough.
The aging peasant woman you saw seems like the wise crone figure who occupies the mythical pantheon in many cultures; she's also closely related to the Dark Mother.
We need good testing, and tests that are accurate.
On demand antibody and virus tests.
We need good information so we can make appropriate decisions. We also need to find out if one is somewhat protected from the virus if they have been exposed to the virus and have antibodies.
U of A and ASU are both planning on opening this fall for in-person classes. Of course things may change and of there needs to be some flexibility on all sides. It is interesting to note that U of A has created an antibody test which is being used around the state and ASU has created a Covid test which is also being used throughout the state.
What we might need to look at are visions and predictions which may hint at what will happen over the next 12 months.
I am not surprised people are getting antsy. I am a bit surprised they are will to expose themselves to a disease by gathering in mass at parks, beaches and protests across the nation. This is not ok. I think at the least when things do open back up, people need to wear masks.
I know my parents REALLY want to drive to Arizona for a visit. They really miss us and it is difficult for them to only connect via phone and FaceTime. At some point in time they will likely take greater risks and do things that will pose more risk because they have been "ok" so far. And they are rational, up-to-date, intelligent, well-read progressive people.
Things are actually going to get more tricky before they get better for all of us. Balancing true emotional health needs with physical health needs and having some sort of income to pay for rent/morgage, food and essentials.
We will simply be in a new phase soon. I think we only a few chapters into our novel right now.
In Virginia the number of daily cases are rising, but I believe it's because we're finally doing more testing. Virginia has been tied for the second-lowest rate of testing in the country.
On Monday, Gov. Northam is supposed to address Phase 1 of reopening the state. I pray he's really smart about it.
FYI, LabCorp and Quest are now offering antibody tests. The test is intended for use as an aid in identifying individuals with an adaptive immune response to SARS-CoV-2, indicating recent or prior infection. Results are for the detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. I believe that if the test is ordered by your doctor, most of the test would be covered by your insurance company. Otherwise, you can get one yourself for approx. $120. I haven't read anything about their accuracy.
@jeanne-mayell . Regarding your Fool reading, maybe you see the Fool too dark. The Fool for me ( Also using Crowley Tarot) is more dare to face the challenge. The virus will stay with us a long time , like any other virus, but it is an opportunity to change.
When I see your cards in your reading , maybe the question has one word too many. You write Will the pandemic subside "soon" . If you leave soon out, it maybe makes more sense ( just an idea) . Yes is obviously not happing ( my experience is that, especially, Crowley tarot can have different meanings, very much depending on how you feel when you look at it)
Fool/Fortune would be ( only for me, and as said might be different for each of Crowley users) Dare to take fortune in our hands. Meaning it is up to us ( each one) how soon. If we stick to the new normal, yes it will be soon.
Change/Ruin = No change will leads to a bad outcome. My first feeling when I saw it.
What I found interesting, if you look at the picture you posted, the Fool/Fortune is the brightest set, and when you open the post you will see these two as first cards.
Gr
( P.S. I like your site, I was looking for years to find a site which allows a group of people to post feelings/readings about the future)
(P.S.S. One small feeling from my self, if I think about USA I see only SA , the united will go away , and I always need to think about the fall of the Roman Empire, sorry. Forgot to introduce me, first post, I am a German living in the Netherlands)
Tbs means The Beautiful South, that is where I live in NL.
@tbs Thanks for your insightful reading! I didn't leave out the word "soon" because I believe the pandemic will eventually subside so I wanted to know when.
I like your interpretation of lightening up this fool, but it depends on who the fool is here. For sure, there will be many people who will be thrilled and grateful to get outside and back to work and into the stores when authorities declare it safe to do so. Also, the renewal of ending the pandemic is a good thing - people feeling new again about their lives. All good.
But when I saw that Fool, I also saw Donald Trump and others of wishful thinking gleefully declaring the pandemic over because some of them are fools and not the wise kind of fool. I saw the darker parts of the spread and wondered if the fool was truly naive, and I feel in this instance that he is naive. It's just my reading of it at the time I revisited it yesterday.
I believe we have become a quick fix society that prioritizes profit at the expense of most. I feel this pandemic is here to show us how we have to reset, become mindful of the earth, and if we do not change our ways, we will face worse outcomes. So that Fool looked foolish and naive to me, not at all wise. I stick to that interpretation.
P.S. Welcome! Glad to have you with us!
@coyote - read your post about learning to be comfortable with uncertainty. It rings very true for me. Daily , we chat about so many what if scenarios. My husband and I hash and rehash the what if’s - exhausting.
but today we decided to start an project outside. Planning it - I should say. Garden boxes and putting in pavers along my back yard. Hoping it will help us embrace the uncertainty.
But when I saw that Fool, I also saw Donald Trump and others of wishful thinking gleefully declaring the pandemic over because some of them are fools and not the wise kind of fool. I saw the darker parts of the spread and wondered if the fool was truly naive, and I feel in this instance that he is naive. It's just my reading of it at the time I revisited it yesterday.
@jeanne-mayell. Yes , Trump is very much the Fool, and he is naive. He can not bully the virus, that is his problem. It was interesting to see that you use Crowley, not very much used in the world , I thought. Thanks for the reply...
@tbs After watching people out and about today I felt I was witnessing the best part of that fool energy that was predicting people enjoying the subsiding of the pandemic. In NYC people are all over the place in the parks and strolling down the avenues. It was beautiful and they were also social distancing. It was a beautiful thing to watch.
You may have already read this NYT opinion column by Frank Bruni about the journalist who predicted this pandemic, but I'm posting it here:
Garrett is an expert on virus pandemics and has been writing about them since H.I.V. outbreak in the 90's. This is a sobering article about what to expect, but there is also hope. She talks about adaptation and how we have adapted in the past. So, of course, we will see adaptation in the future as we figure out how to deal and live with this virus in our midst.
Personally, I'm not at all comfortable with resuming normal life. Here in Washington, we have our stay at home order extended through the month of May and we are okay with that. Even when restaurants open again, I can't see going to sit inside. Our lives are changing, but we can adapt as we go. We will have a new normal.
So, while I watch the reopening of Southern states, I am just completely appalled. My brother and sister in law live in SC and drove to Georgia Friday with friends to go out to dinner where the restaurants were opening first. In the spirit of loving kindness, I did not scream or comment.
My neighbor just drove his son cross country last week and reported that people were observing social distancing by and large. When they crossed into Texas, they were stopped at a roadblock and the police were questioning people about where they were coming from and taking people's temperatures. If drivers were coming from Atlanta or New Orleans, the police were directing them to go home. This does not appear to be reported in the media, but there is so much insanity to report daily, actions like this are barely a blip on the news radar.
@tbs, welcome to the site. So glad you have found us!
This site allows you to daily track the Covid19 outbreak on a county basis and you can keep track of the counties where your family and friends live. It's updated with Johns Hopkins data daily.
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-by-your-locations/
@jeanne-mayell When you say "fool energy," are we going to see another wave, albeit small?