@tgraf66 Thanks for the clarification. At this point I just sort of want to crawl in a hole. I'm a history guy and have now started questioning everything I ever knew :P.
I believe that Love,Good,Faith,Hope are all with us as we begin this run down the home stretch.
Amen. Let us pray, meditate, wish, and have faith for the result to be for the highest good of all.
Strength to all of you. I cannot imagine the utter fear and desperation some of you might be feeling, but stay strong. The first step has been taken. It isn't over yet, and won't be for some time (not in Europe either), but we have defeated Nationalism before. We can do it again as long as we stay true and in the light.
Good vibes too all ❤️
Thank you. Many Americans are indeed afraid. As for me, the whole situation gets me frustrated and disgusted but never really afraid. I do not think fear is productive; I believe it feeds the dark.
When I consider the nature of fear, a quote from Frank Herbert's "Dune" often runs through my mind:
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
I need to break out my copy of the constitution and read it. Havent done that in years and never paid that much attention to the election laws within, assuming they would never be relevant in my lifetime. Oops.
Also regretting not organizing my book for easy reference when we moved. 11 bookcases full of books in the library and none are organized. Ugh.
@mas1581 That's not actually in the Big C. It's the Electoral Count Act of 1887, linked here:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15
@ana Last night my Dad wanted some beer, so i put on my haz-mat suit, and went to the store. The friendly lady who worked in the beer dept. had words tattooed on her arms, so i asked her if i could read them. It said:
@ana
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
I had never heard that quote or read that book. So surprised to see that you posted it here this morning!
@ana Last night my Dad wanted some beer, so i put on my haz-mat suit, and went to the store. The friendly lady who worked in the beer dept. had words tattooed on her arms, so i asked her if i could read them. It said:
@ana
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
I had never heard that quote or read that book. So surprised to see that you posted it here this morning!
Aha. Synchronicity. There’s a loud, clear voice talking!
I now see where the public confusion came from. In the event of disagreement, the law states that the votes certified by the executive of the state(Governor) will be counted. Some took that as reverting to the Governor for re-certification and others took it as those previously certified by the Governor.
I read it as those already certified by the Governor, but either way it is taken, there won't be any issue as 3 states need to be overturned or thrown out and that won't happen under any circumstance with a blue house.
On a side note, this is hilarious to me because those fighting the election are also the ones most intent on immigrants passing intensive civics tests. They are the ones who have the least comprehension of how the government and laws actually work and a large majority couldnt pass a basic civics test themselves.
How many times does "It" have to shoot itself in its own foot by running its mouth making threats and bullying and threatening before "It" is held accountable? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/03/trump-georgia-raffensperger-call-biden-washington-post
Many are fed up, many have already voted, many? are not even going to bother.... I still see Warnick and Ossoff winning.
"It" continues to implode and can not stop itself..and "It" continues to drag all down with him that "It" can.
@Tgraf thank you for clarifying for us. That must have taken a lot of work and you laid it out beautifully. I feel we will be okay with certifying the election. I still need to throw cards again on the Ga runoffs. Will post it soon.
But I just wanted to share my reading of the transcript of Trump's yesterday conversation with Brad Raffensberger, the now famous Republican GA Secretary of State who has stuck to an honest investigation and certification of the GA election.
I rarely read or listen to anything Trump says, but this was such a powerful example of how Donald Trump persuades people to get what he wants although in this case, he failed utterly. He called Raffensberger yesterday to tell him to de-certify the Georgia election.
Trump was utterly exhausting, denying, lying, full of misinformation, and never once accepted one thing Raffensberger told him about why he was wrong. It reminded me of Baba's angel vision a while back of an angel holding up a finger to stop Trump. Raffensberger cannot be bought or compromised. He was that angel.
Some of it was comical, even for me who has not be able to laugh about the subject of Trump. T tried every possible way to convince Raffenberger that he had won Ga. His main point was the he's had thousands of people at his rallies, so where did their votes go?
Then they went through a breakdown where Raffensberger showed him how thorough they investigated the vote and that all of claims of fraud were wrong.
My favorite part was when Trump started talking about dead people voting. His staffer claimed there were 5,000 dead people, but T said it was closer to 20,000.
Then Raffensberger replied: The actual number were two. Two. Two people that were dead that voted. So that’s wrong.
When asked to present where the Trump people got their figures, they said they compared voters with people born the same year with the same names. That was it.
@journeywithme2 The simple reality is that there isn't enough time. An impeachment proceeding would take a minimum of three weeks, and "it" will be gone in 17 days, rendering the entire process moot.
Assuming he does not resign and have Pence pardon him (unlikely, since resigning would be admitting defeat, and he doesn't trust Pence anyway) or attempt to pardon himself (which would definitely be challenged), he will still be on the hook for federal charges which can then be pursued without worrying about him claiming some kind of immunity because he's POTUS.
If he does attempt to pardon himself and 1) it is successfully challenged, as it should be under the rule of law, he would then still be on the hook for those charges. However, even if 2) it is not successfully challenged, he may be cleared of federal charges, but the state charges in NY still stand and are valid. In addition, charges may be filed in GA (state election tampering/interference violations) which are also not subject to a federal pardon. Success in doing that may not be assured or even possible given the Republican TPTB there. In addition, the Gov of GA could issue a state-level pardon for any such charges, assuming he wants to destroy any national political ambitions he may have.
And here's another bizarrely possible scenario: he doesn't resign or seek a pardon from Pence and doesn't try to pardon himself...because in his world, he did nothing wrong or illegal, so no pardon is necessary. And strangely enough, I think this may actually be the most likely possibility, and a fitting end in keeping with his inability to face reality.
I still need to throw cards again on the Ga runoffs. Will post it soon.
I will be watching for this post like I watched the Ring movies. With my hand over my eyes, looking through a slit between my fingers. ?
@tgraf66 As a native Georgian and living here all of my 60 plus years.. I am very very proud of Raffensperger and yes, even that Trump suck up Gov.Brian Kemp for not giving in and keeping the faith with the people of Georgia in our true and factual votes. Brian Kemp has not totally rolled over for him. I think Kemp knows too, that once you anger "it" you are toast with the GOP , who will most likely tap Doug Collins for that office when the time comes to run. I also think that David Perdue has conveniently "been exposed to Covid-19 and is quarantining from an "abundance of caution " and not even out in public. I feel that is an excuse that he sees the writing on the wall and is staying out of it. He has not been in the public eye for the debates and other issues as well. Kelly Loeffler is out there, with white supremacists and Kool-aid Trumpers and parroting Trump trying to ride his coattails in to an office she was NOT elected to...but was appointed to fill in by Gov Kemp when Johnny Isakson stepped down in 8-19 for health reasons. I also said, I want to see "it" held accountable... I did not say impeachment.... I want him to face criminal charges for all he has done once he has left office and is no longer shielded by the office he held so miserably and disastrously costing lives and well being of all. Georgia has had a long and complicated political history.... many times failing to honor the duties of office our elected officials swore to uphold. We are also the state that raised Jimmy Carter and he and Rosalynn remain true humanitarians and heroes in my eyes and always will be. I find myself feeling strangely calm and at ease at this time...even mere days away from the critical vote on Tuesday the 5th. I "feel" that Ossoff and Warnock will prevail... that "it's" craziness has finally pushed the GOP and anyone with a speck of a brain, conscience and heart, away from letting it ride anymore.
@journeywithme2 My apologies, I have no idea why I assumed you meant impeachment there; you obviously didn't say that. I think because I had read some other things on Twitter that said it should be done that way, and I wrongly put those words in your mouth.
I know it's not pleasant to hear "let it ride" anymore, but honestly, there's little we or anyone else can or will do in the next 17 days. At this point, it's just hold on and try to keep it together for now. I do think he will be held accountable in at least some regard, and those of his co-conspirators that he pardoned can be compelled to testify because they no longer have immunity.
I am hoping against hope that the runoffs go our way and ship can begin to be righted in the shortest amount of time possible.
I agree with you that I will be watching this forum very closely (I hope that your reading on the Georgia election will give us hope, @jeanne-mayell).
But unlike you, I will be watching this situation and find it more akin to "Groundhog Day" or even one of those "stupid people caught on film doing stupid things" TV show.
Seriously, how much more of this crazy Trump must we suffer from? And now we have numerous Representatives and at least eleven Senators (including two from Tennessee, much to my shame) that plan to contest the election.
And this is after Pence has suggested that he supports it and after Trump tries once again to subvert the vote, this time by his phone call to Georgia (sounds a bit like Ukraine all over again, or Trump following Lindsey Graham's lead).
At what point will this ever stop? Will there ever be a point in the next few years when the public is so disgusted with Trump that they make the Republican party pay for their support of him? I am so infuriated and wonder why the Democrats continue to hold back. If there was someone from the left or liberal that started to advocate for the terrorism and even killing of conservatives, that person would be destroyed, yet Republicans welcome such radicals from the right and we continue to be treated badly by them.
I truly believe that the Republican party cannot be saved. It would be far better for the party to be delegated to an extreme minority status and then the Democratic party either get things done or split into a moderate and a progressive party that will work together to find solutions to solve the problems in this country. Right now, the Republican Party is the problem. While we would love to have two opposing parties come up with solutions for the good of the country, it has gotten to the point that the Republican party is the problem, and it would be far better for the Democrats to gain complete control than for the country and the Constitution to be continually hampered and attacked by these alleged "patriots."
I think its scarier than just supporting Trump. They arent supporting him in the Senate. If you look at their words closely, they are supporting an investigation, not desertification of votes. This way they can appease the Trump cult and not cross the line into sedition. To me this is much more dangerous because they are fully aware of what they are doing and how treasonous and illegal it actually is, yet they clearly put themselves and their careers over the possible destruction of our country they were elected to defend. They know full well it won't change anything and Biden will be inaugurated on 1/20 no matter what they do. They just don't care and are willing to risk a civil war and hundreds of thousands of deaths to keep their jobs.
If they were stupid and just drank the kool-aid, that's one thing. To me, though, its the difference between temporary insanity/act of passion and premeditated if this were a murder case.
As far as Trump is concerned, nothing will happen. The loonies are too dangerous now and Wednesday we will see a preview of how far they are willing to go. Trump has been riling them up for weeks and Proud Boys have said they are dressing in black to give the appearance of antifa and give Trump an excuse for martial law(in their eyes). Since the Senators brought up 1876, I'm thinking a few loonies have done some research and an attempt on Biden, like Hayes, wouldnt surprise me.