@laura-f - Another factor to consider and we are seeing it, is the changing demographics. The incoming congress is very diverse. More voices are being heard from all groups. Also the younger generations are coming of age and have a vision for a different future. Yes, it will take time to unravel the damage and build new and better systems. I have faith and belief that the younger generations will make the change to create the world and nation they want to live in. I will support them with my vote and my voice. Take heart, we can do this. ?
Laura F., Clinton wasn't convicted, only impeached. (ie house voted to impeach, Senate voted to acquit, exactly like Trump).
Man you'd think that the orange one would have learned from the few times he got caught red handed on tape saying something stupid. But no, he went and did it again.
I know that its a priority for him to stay relevant, but someone must have advised him agaisnt that cause it's just legally damning at this point. It just plain stupidity.
I am upset by the amount of republicans that are willing to put their careers before our country, these senators who are willing to play with the legitimacy of our democracy are scum.
To piggy back on what y'all said, something that worried me about trump was not his tendencies toward being an authoritarian but if a few successors down the line, a smarter man will succeed where trump failed. Hopefully democracy stands firm in the next few decades.
Man you'd think that the orange one would have learned from the few times he got caught red handed on tape saying something stupid. But no, he went and did it again.
That's because, despite being caught, he has yet to face any real repercussions for his crimes. And yes, he was impeached -- but so what? Until these criminals face actual, serious consequences, they will continue to do whatever they want (and do so brazenly) -- and that goes for not only Trump, but whoever succeeds him in the GOP.
I pray the new AG will prosecute these people, because "moving forward" is only possible if the law is applied to all Americans, the rich included.
Unfortunately I remain cynical, which is why I have been silent around here as of late. May I be wrong.
You are correct except that a conviction in Impeachment does not equal removal from office, otherwise Bill Clinton would have left. He was impeached/convicted for lying to Congress ("I did not have sex with that woman"), he never left office, completed two terms, in fact.
With Twitler, we did have Impeachment Hearings. The Senate then voted to acquit him of the charges, so you are correct in that he was not impeached per se, just accused and tried.
I am very sorry but you are incorrect about the result of Bill Clinton’s impeachment. He was acquitted by the senate. Had he been convicted, he absolutely would have been out of office right away. To date three presidents have been impeached with none convicted (Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump), and one president has resigned before he could be impeached because he was made aware by members of his own party that he would be convicted and removed from office (Richard Nixon).
From the link below: “Five weeks later, on February 12, the Senate voted on whether to remove Clinton from office. The president was acquitted on both articles of impeachment. The prosecution needed a two-thirds majority to convict but failed to achieve even a bare majority. Rejecting the first charge of perjury, 45 Democrats and 10 Republicans voted “not guilty,” and on the charge of obstruction of justice the Senate was split 50-50. After the trial concluded, President Clinton said he was “profoundly sorry” for the burden his behavior imposed on Congress and the American people.”
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/president-clinton-impeached
I deeply respect you Laura but being pessimistic just feeds the darkness.
We must believe and hope and pray and send light. Or else the dark will expand.
As my favorite poet Dylan Thomas famously wrote, rage rage against the dying of the light.
I believe we will win
I believe that we will win
I believe in the light.
You are correct except that a conviction in Impeachment does not equal removal from office, otherwise Bill Clinton would have left. He was impeached/convicted for lying to Congress ...
Yes, Clinton was impeached. No, he was never convicted of anything. Both he and Trump were impeached, i.e., charged or indicted, but never convicted of any crime. Your use of the term "conviction" with the word "Impeachment" is causing confusion. Both Clinton and Trump didn't leave office only because neither was found guilty in the Senate trial. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/president-clinton-acquitted
You are correct except that a conviction in Impeachment does not equal removal from office, otherwise Bill Clinton would have left. He was impeached/convicted for lying to Congress ...
Yes, Clinton was impeached. No, he was never convicted of anything. Both he and Trump were impeached, i.e., charged or indicted, but never convicted of any crime. Your use of the term "conviction" with the word "Impeachment" is causing confusion. Both Clinton and Trump didn't leave office only because neither was found guilty in the Senate trial. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/president-clinton-acquitted
Exactly. Impeachment is simply the "political" version of indictment. They have to be convicted by the Senate to be removed from office. Here is the text from Article II of the Constitution:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.[2]
@jessi1978 I am unable to verify O'keefe posting what you have said he is posting. Can you share the link?
That was from his Twitter account but I have found it on another news site.
CNN: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/06/politics/trump-capitol-impeachment-25-amendment/index.html
What will the GOP leadership do about Trump
Signifier – 3 of Pentacles
Past – 6 of Swords
Current – The Empress
Challenge – Judgement
Lesson – 4 of Pentacles
Outcome – 5 of Swords clarified by the Devil, 7 of Cups and 8 of Pentacles
Underneath – The Emperor
McConnell and the GOP leadership are now in backroom meetings to discuss what they are going to do with Trump. Trump’s failed coup d etat has forced the GOP’s hands. In the past, they were guiding the boat while Trump made waves. All they needed to do was just deal with two more weeks of his insanity and they would be at the other shore. However, Trump crossed a line that few GOP members thought he would cross.
They are concerned about themselves and their future well being. They’ve used Trump as cover and as a distraction so they could pass their political agendas, get their judges on the courts. I’m sure more than a few would like this country to be an Oligarchy, because THEY would be the ones in power.
The entire world is watching in horror at the events in Washington DC today. There is no more cover, there are no more excuses that can be made. The whole world was watching and saw what happened. They now await to see what America’s lawmakers will do. And on top of that, the whole US population was watching and more than a few Republicans will be appalled by what they saw. It was easy for them to judge BLM protesters, but they may face a dilemma with Trumpers Traitors.
The GOP was supporting a man who only thinks about, acts upon and loves money (and power). They, themselves, have gerrymandered, voter suppressed themselves into power and maintaining power. They both clutch onto that wealth and power dearly and it now has cost them their future jobs, their reputations and their entire political party. There is no way the GOP stays intact. I suspect two to four parties will emerge: Trumpers, Conservatives, Tea Party, and Evangelicals.
The outcome is the GOP will go to Trump and tell him he has to go. Likely, they will give him 2 options, you can resign or we can remove you via the 25th Amendment. Trump will go the path of least humiliation which is to resign. Quitting isn’t “losing” to him, it is winning. He will quit to protect his money and his delusional belief that the election was stolen from him. It was predicted by others (his ghost writer on Art of the Deal, I believe) that he would quit, declare himself the greatest President ever and the worst treated President ever. In fact, he pretty much as done all those things anyway.
Under the deck is the Emperor. This is likely Trump wanting to be a King/Emperor of the United States. We were within 45,000 votes in a total of three states away from losing our democracy to a new American Oligarchy, with Trump as the Dictator. That is way too close for comfort. Basically, Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin had gone Trump’s way, he would have had 271 electoral votes.
Trump will go the path of least humiliation which is to resign.
Not to dispute your cards, but I don't think the Orange One will resign. That - to him - would be quitting. No, I believe he will force them to remove him and then declare that not only was the election stolen from him, he was the victim of a coup...and his idiot base will buy it.
Trump will go the path of least humiliation which is to resign.
Not to dispute your cards, but I don't think the Orange One will resign. That - to him - would be quitting. No, I believe he will force them to remove him and then declare that not only was the election stolen from him, he was the victim of a coup...and his idiot base will buy it.
I wonder if this is where the scenario unfolds that some intuitives here have suggested -- faced with sedition charges and/or the 25th amendment going into effect, and indeed even getting kicked out of the white house on Jan 20, Trump is offered a deal by Congress to resign, leave the country, and stay out. At least Trump would be able to say, oh no he didn't lose, he chose to resign. He could even claim to his sheeple that he was exiled by the "opposition". Even by itself (not as a result of a deal), resignation seems like something Trump would prefer to the alternatives at this point. He is a pretty desperate man and looks like today's seditious insurrection was his latest (last ditch?) effort to incite his minions to a violent coup in order to stay in power. But I do think Congress is now very concerned (as I am) about what Trump will try next, during the next 14 days, as his desperation continues to grow. After all, he still does have the nuclear codes. In addition, he has just made an enemy of Pence, and many other Republicans have had the wool removed from their eyes (and mouths) today. Lindsey Graham, who is the type of wishy washy person who shifts to the side of whoever he sees as being "in power", has jumped ship as well. So it really does seem like Congress will be very interested in removing Trump from power ASAP before he can do any more damage to the country.
All the ugliness of today's mob insurrection aside, I think today was a wonderfully bright and wonderful day for our democracy!!! *celebrating*
Mo Brooks, Matt Gaetz et al, and Fox News, are already claiming that yesterday's insurrection was a peaceful rally infiltrated by ANTIFA, so not to be a Debbie Downer, but I don't think things are going to get better anytime soon.
I don't know how it can be done, but the one thing that will turn the ship around is to simply shut down the right wing news echo chamber. SO SIMPLE I KNOW.
@sam - I got back on Facebook last night because the curiosity got the better of me - I had to know what my wife's extended family, and a couple of former friends from my college days were saying.
Thankfully for the long term my wife's family was silent. One former friend in particular did a general blanket statement about always condemning violence with a picture of one of the things Sarah Palin was circulating yesterday indicating that the protesters were peaceful and it was Antifa that broke into the capital.
I started to argue but eventually stopped, logged off, and don't plan on going back again.
Arguing with these people is like bringing a facts to a hot dog slap.
I unfriended some people today on FB and I’m not finished. It takes a lot for me to unfriend someone, but I don’t want their dirty feet walking through my mind.
Another thought I've been grappling with. This came from a friend's FB Post I also saw while I made that visit to FB.
Emotions are running high right now, but people don't seem to realize that when they say "if you don't agree with me, unfriend me now", they're just adding to the division. When you confront emotion with more emotion, you're circling the drain.
There are some others like this one - and I get the overall sentiment. There were also the "It's time to come together and forgive."
Here's my problem. I don't disagree with the sentiment, but in execution the argument is essentially "A bunch of terrorists who have, for several years now, said that we're the danger to the country, attempted to stage a coup at our nation's capital. They were unsuccessful thankfully so let's forgive them and move on."
As @Allyn and many others have said thousands of times - this is unfortunately what the Democrats do all the time. "We're really angry!" *SHAKES FIST AT SKY* "Don't do it again!" (And yes, I know I essentially made the opposite point yesterday somewhere but I can't choose what direction I grow as a person from day to day you guys! :P)
We should neither forgive, NOR forget what happened yesterday. We should not be concerned about the feelings of Q-Anon supporters, Trumpsters, or anyone who supported this yesterday. The only way we can get this to stop is to comfort the populace (Go Biden Go!) and prosecute everyone involved in this to the fullest extent of the law.
Words and actions have consequences. Except when they don't. This can't be one of those times we just say "We'll do better next time."