I just read through all of the new set of predictions and I am heartened that as a collective, we are seeing a return to stability, albeit after some more unrest, but the goal is in sight. What surprises me is the lack of vision at this point into the preservation or destruction of the ACA and the other SCOTUS cases pertaining to LGBTQ rights. Or is it just to early to see that yet? I hope that the reference to wrongs righted include those issues...
@jovesta I think it's because we are focusing on the immediate root problem. Since the the attacks on the ACA and LGBTQ rights are are manifestations- i.e., symptoms - of the Orange One's administration, the focus is on ending that administration, the cause of those symptoms. Once that's done, the other issues can be corrected and dealt with appropriately and fairly, even if the SCOTUS rulings are not what we would hope them to be.
I have trouble understanding Trump supporters through all of this stuff, especially this year. They can see all the concerns, the fears of loss of life, the fears of loss of rights, and just flat out criminality in this administration but they turn a blind eye to so much. Just since the weekend, I saw interview with Lara Trump where she mocked Biden's stuttering, interviews with Trump followers who didn't really know what QAnon was but decided it was true because he said was, a ralley with Trump saying Biden would cancel Christmas this year and on and on and on.... There are really some days I feel like I'm living in a different reality than they are. I feel like a lot of the devotion is fed on fear. Trump plays to their fears and they grasp onto that with fervor. At a certain point though, when does reason and truth clear the way. I used to work in social services and often had my people that would come in with lots of unrealistic or unfounded fears. I would take the time to talk through with them about what was a valid worry and what we could work through and what just wasn't true. Most people would be reassured when they had the facts and could put some measure of control on their life and what decisions to make. But with this group, I just don't understand. I saw interviews this weekend where even when the reporters fact checked Trump to his supporters they would just justify it with another myth. They just couldn't see anything beyond their own clinging to supporting him even when presented with information that showed what he said made no sense. In some ways they remind me of some of those clients I used to have, I wanted them to have the information to make the best decisions for themselves but every so often I would get someone who just couldn't hear anything or were so closed off they would make choices that would do themselves harm. It makes me frustrated to watch his supporters now because they are hurting both those around them but also themselves. It's so needless and destructive. At this point, I just wish they would stop going to a ralley and truly think of their friends, family and themselves (both mentally and physically).
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Trump's campaign manager sent a letter to the Debate Commission insisting that the topics for the debate should be changed to only focus on Foreign Policy.
My hunch is that Trump is either (1) looking for a way to get out of doing the last debate (again) so he can keep doing his multiple rallies or (2) the demand was made so that he can use "foreign policy" as a way to attack Biden about Hunter and Ukraine. Maybe both.
I'd put 50-50 odds on Trump not showing for the last debate and blaming it on the questions.
By the way, here are the already scheduled topics for the debate:
- "Fighting COVID-19"
- "American Families"
- "Race in America"
- "Climate Change"
- "National Security"
- "Leadership"
The debate doesn't matter to me or the rest of my family. We're all among the 30 million voters who have already cast our ballots. I got my notice this morning that my ballot has been received and verified and will be counted. So relieved to have it done!
The microphones will be muted so now he will def drop out
This article can explain some of the reasons people support the moron. Interesting read.
The Psychology Behind Donald Trump's Unwavering Support | Psychology Today
The microphones will be muted so now he will def drop out
LOL. ? Although if he's riled up enough, he won't really need a mic.
This article can explain some of the reasons people support the moron. Interesting read.
The Psychology Behind Donald Trump's Unwavering Support | Psychology Today
Great article, @lenor. My favorite takeaway line: Essentially, they’re not smart enough to realize they’re dumb.
But in all seriousness, after reading it, it seems clear to me that Trump, at least on some level, is aware of these psychological forms of manipulation and knows how to use them. It's not happenstance.
It may just be that these are things that worked for him throughout his life, his "tried and true" methods to control others. But reading the article, I found myself wondering if someone isn't actually advising him to use these tactics to control his followers.
Also, this article helped me to better understand why the entire GOP has seemingly been so unwilling to reel him in. He no doubt uses some of the same tactics to control them.
Interesting stuff.
I have trouble understanding Trump supporters through all of this stuff, especially this year. They can see all the concerns, the fears of loss of life, the fears of loss of rights, and just flat out criminality in this administration but they turn a blind eye to so much. Just since the weekend, I saw interview with Lara Trump where she mocked Biden's stuttering, interviews with Trump followers who didn't really know what QAnon was but decided it was true because he said was, a ralley with Trump saying Biden would cancel Christmas this year and on and on and on.... There are really some days I feel like I'm living in a different reality than they are.
Besides the good points already mentioned, I just want to add that probably most of these people -- unwavering Trump supporters -- are the products of decades of right-wing propaganda media including the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, etc. They are constantly being bombarded with messaging about "those evil liberals", the "us against them", and so on. They live and breathe this world view, which is further entrenched by politicized pastors in evangelical churches as well as the peer pressure/societal norms of their families and right-wing communities. I hear with much sadness about those of you who have been forced into estrangement from brainwashed right-wing family members who forcefully reject your perspective because they have been programmed to unconditionally hate "liberals" and the values they stand for.
@lenor Thanks so much for the article. It is interesting but still strikes me as sad too. Most of my family (as many here have) are combination Trump Supporters and hard core republicans. My small immediate family is about the only ones in the family that don't believe that way. I literally have gotten to the point I just can't talk about much with them anymore (any subject). I can't even blame it on Trump though as it has been that way for awhile but its just worse with this administration. When I was in social work years ago, I fought with them about things like people who were homeless, child care for working mothers and health care. I'm not a very loud or outspoken person in most ways. I rarely get in arguments but yet I would find myself yelling when I talked with them...that truly is way out of character for me. I usually try to do things that keep the peace and calm things. I hate confrontations. It takes a lot to get me to yell (although yelling at the tv this year at politicians has become a cathartic experience). To be honest that is why I got out of social work, it just took too much of me and out of me. I would be exhausted every day and after many years of doing it, I didn't like the person I was turning into as I got more jaded so I had to make a change.
Talking about Trump supporters and the veering into the extreme right; this is also happening in Europe now. People who use Trump as the hero of their conspiracies and have found QAnon. This connects to: "the virus isn't real and stop making us wear masks."
They are now threatening our politicians. Our prime minister used to comes to work on his bicycle. He needs extra security now and has to come by car. People talked about killing him in a Podcast (you can see this in the link below as well; was a big part of our news a month or so ago)!
One of our satire talk-show hosts did a piece about it and it slayed. I saved it for my daughter to see when she is older, because this is EXACTLY what happens with those people who 'research' YouTube or Facebook for the truth. When you put facts aside, because they do not mix with what you want to believe.
So when you talk about 'what the hell is up with those Trump supporters' I think the following applies to those who have gone off the Pizza Gate deep end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLoR2Spftwg The host is in Dutch, but the piece has English subtitles. It's good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfXW8QYCz5I this is the Lincoln Project's Breakdown from yesterday's live show. At the beginning they had a professor on who knew everything about demagogs. Very interesting to see how she applied science to Trump's behavior. She also said that she still hasn't figure out how to pierce through the alternate reality the extreme supporters have created.
I recommend both clips very highly to those who wish to understand where those people's minds went.
That psychology today article has backed up things I've been saying for years.
Think about it. Trump supporters(who aren't in it for profit) are mostly undereducated rural conservatives who are older.
Without the education or exposure to multiple conflicting ideas, you arent accustomed to anything but what has been in your bubble. Being older means the bubble has been given more time to solidify. By being conservative, you are inherently against change.
Most people are against change because of fear, which is at a higher level for them than others who embrace change. This is why it is usually the right that falls prey to nationalist/racist fear rhetoric.
Now someone comes along who tells you that your fears are justified, your problems are caused by the people inciting the fears you have, and brings you back to a "safer" time firmly placed inside that bubble. He then furthers keeping you uneducated by claiming that the "educated elite" and scientists are taking away your freedoms. You already have the inferiority complex when it comes to the elite, so you can easily process that the people smarter than you are plotting against you. Again, here comes this "educated" outcast who has a lot of money so must be really smart. He tells you he has figured it all out and now you are in on the trick. This brings out the arrogance that you are now just as smart as the elites and smarter than the masses because you are "in on the trick."
Trump, himself, isn't smart enough to pull this off. His cohorts like Putin, Bannon, Miller, etc are smart enough to recognize and utilize it. Now you have Trump, who is dumb as a box of rocks and racist and you have a figurehead leader who is actually one of the flock. The theory is correct that a bunch of elitists are keeping them dumb to manipulate them, but the wolf the one who is tending the flock, not the enemy on the outside they say it is.
Great article. I love Psychology Today.
To put in in Cohen's magasimple terms, they're a stupid cult.
I saw this woman at the grocery store a this weekend. She's on a riding cart, breathing wheezily, not exactly the picture of health, and yep, you guessed it, wearing a Twitler mask. He's in federal court right now trying to kill the ACA. They are willing to die for dear leader. Literally.
Stupid cult.
CNN is hitting back at Twitler for his attack on their coverage of the COVID19 crisis. It makes me feel some semblance of sanity. I looked for a link, but it will probably come later. Living and dealing with Trumpites makes the world feel upside down. I woke up at 4:30 am and just got up because I knew sleeping wasn't going to happen. So I just focus on the good and ignore the toxicity my husband spews. I make a birthday cake for the dog, cookies for the kids, masks for donation, laundry, dishes....and all the while try to stay positive. Thank you all for the honest conversation and hope through the predictions. This site is a big part of how I am keeping calm.
I think many are living in totally different political realities.
There was a time when most folks got their news from newspapers or the television news, and the media had to be fair and give "equal time" to both parties. While the news may have been biased by the leaning of the news source and its advertisers, and folks at home may have interpreted based on their own values and leanings, everyone still essentially had the same information.
Now everything is fragmented. Many folks on the Right get their news and information from totally different sources than folks on the Left. Many folks get their news online - this runs the spectrum from legitimate news and information sources to sketchy and unsubstantiated websites and forums. And of course, you have the Faux News folks on the television who parade around political opinion as political fact - omitting what they find inconvenient and offering their own unsubstantiated claims and theories to fit their narrative.
And we also have a president who undermines the credibility of actual news sources and bolsters conspiracy nuts.
I suspect the range of information sources will continue to diversify with social media and technology. We can only hope that laws, regulations, and policies will be instituted that find a balance between weeding out the dangerous stuff; making people, websites, and social media accountable for the information on their sites; but also allowing Freedom of Speech and the ability to debate interpretations of facts and also opinions (even the unpopular ones).
Earlier in this thread we talked about Chris Christie and how some of us felt called to send light to him while he was hospitalized. He has now written a piece for the Wall Street Journal about his experience with Covid-19. He reiterates how important it is to wear a mask and calls for "leaders" to send a consistent message about to the public about their importance. A good chunk of the piece is available without a WSJ subscription. Thought I'd post a link -- I hope that Christie keeps talking about this; it might save some lives.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-should-have-worn-a-mask-11603315968
The TAXES! The secret bank accounts!
"The New York Times continues to dig up delightful truffles from the president*'s financial history.
And it turns out that China is one of only three foreign nations — the others are Britain and Ireland — where Mr. Trump maintains a bank account, according to an analysis of the president’s tax records, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html__;!!Ivohdkk!0fWMETGSZnogM92U6O9JcO5I9DHX36kMzyo1h-ukikL-x21YVEy-xjQtihOpiv-l%2 4" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-vars-ga-outbound-link="https://urldefense.com/v3/__ https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html__;!!Ivohdkk!0fWMETGSZnogM92U6O9JcO5I9DHX36kMzyo1h-ukikL-x21YVEy-xjQtihOpiv-l $">which were obtained by The New York Times. The foreign accounts do not show up on Mr. Trump’s public financial disclosures, where he must list personal assets, because they are held under corporate names. The identities of the financial institutions are not clear. The Chinese account is controlled by Trump International Hotels Management L.L.C., which the tax records show paid $188,561 in taxes in China while pursuing licensing deals there from 2013 to 2015.
A secret Chinese bank account?
Just as the Founders intended.
And, surely, we all have taken note that the president* paid a helluva lot in taxes to the People's Republic, while not exactly paying his share to this one.
A secret Chinese bank account?
Beautiful...."
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a34437778/trump-china-bank-account-corruption/
I wonder who it is that keeps feeding the NYTimes this information...
I heard about this last night and my heart got so full. This is one of the most beautiful and positive moments. I have not been a Christie fan over the years at all, yet I have tried to give him credit where possible. I remember how appreciative he was of Obama after Sandy struck New Jersey. That stood out to me. That he would truly show gratitude to Obama.
His most recent comments are truly amazing given the climate today and the roll he had for debate prep right before the election. May this be a blessing for all of us. There are many lessons for us to absorb here.
We are all connected.
@lovendures I used to believe we were all connected and then along came Donald Trump.
@lovendures I used to believe we were all connected and then along came Donald Trump.