I agree with Jeanne, we have to think about setting a precedent that you can do what he has done and get away with it. I want to replace him, but that's not going to happen if we don't impeach- of course the senate wont kick him our but that isn't the important part. It's more important that we stand on the right side of history and impeaching in the house will get the truth out. People need the full story and impeachment is the only way to get it out. I will not and never have chosen to live in fear; doing so, like Kerry and Clinton would compromise our integrity. History did not forget that error and won't forget this one.
My concern is that we're not getting anywhere with the current investigations because of the WH / AJ's obstructions. I support the impeachment inquiry because I think it's critical that the public become educated to what is in the report. I can't see any other way of achieving that purpose. The more people know the truth, the more I believe they will support impeachment. Although the Senate would never impeach, the people will at least know more about T than they do now. And besides: most people would rather watch the movie (live testimony) than read the book. In my view Mueller was a little too subtle in his comments yesterday.
I was struck by a statement made by an older woman who attended Amash's town hall. She remarked that she didn't know any of this about ConDon, and up until that town hall, believed that he did nothing wrong. She added that she only listens to the conservative news channels.
Here's a good link to a lawfare blog about impeachment inquiry: https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-powers-does-formal-impeachment-inquiry-give-house .
I admit that my head spun around a bit when I read the above blog. But I still strongly believe that the Dems need to be bold and begin the inquiry.
I agree the dems MUST go for impeachment. Astrologically, the best time is if they begin formal proceedings in July, then 6 months later the eclipses come around again, that's about the time frame of an impeachment. Clinton's impeachment took 5 months. I called my congresswoman today to relay my urging for Pelosi to begin impeachment this year.
I agree, Jeanne. It’s time to impeach Trump. Even if the Republican Senators refuse to convict him, the very process of impeachment will educate the American public...and that’s clearly what is needed now, especially since the vast majority of citizens are not reading the Mueller report. A lengthy, public investigation during the impeachment process can turn public sentiment and make it even more difficult for the GOP Senate to protect him. Look at history: a majority of Americans were against impeaching Nixon until the revelations turned the tide of public opinion against him.
Also, Saibh, I follow Elizabeth Cronise McLaughlin, too, and have supported her daily podcast through Patreon for several years. Elizabeth is an intuitive, a sharp legal mind and a fierce warrior in the Resistance. And I love the lawfareblog, deetoo.
I saw Elijah Cummings on the news (last Friday I think) and he was saying that they are making good progress on the investigations in the House, and if they begin impeachment all of that stops. Mainly, it's the stuff with finances. They recently had a judge rule FOR Deutschebank giving congress the bank records. I'm not sure how much longer the WH can continue to fight that legally. And NY state passed something that lets them share Trumps state tax records with congress.
Trump has been so furious about trying to hide his financials. And now we know Mueller didn't look at that stuff. If Pelosi can get her hands on it, it may well reveal illegal/damaging info that can be used not only to really help impeachment but perhaps even to get him to resign rather than have it made public.
*IF* they're waiting on something like that, and it's very short term, then the wait is good. But I don't know the details on where those things are at, or how likely they are to generate results soon. If he can just obfuscate until 2020 then yes, they should just impeach.
There were at one point lots of predictions on here about Trump's resigning. I still hold out hope for that. But they'll have to get his balls in an absolute vise before he'll do it.
Agree with you all. What a great community you are. Getting the financials would be great and might bring more people over to the side of impeachment but not if there is much delay.
Meanwhile Twitter is stalling and blocking. The momentum to impeach is now and the rethugs know that. I have no thought that the senate will remove him. They won’t. That isn’t the reason to impeach. The House simply needs to do their duty. They need to do the right thing. Mueller’s speech handed the Bar (pun intended) to them.
I completely agree with getting him the hell out of the white house, but first, they only have one shot at it and hes not getting removed by this senate. Also, if you do manage to get him out of office this term, there is nothing stating he cannot run in 2020 and get re-elected. If they do decide to impeach, their best strategic move is to let the impeachment run thru the campaign and the trial in the senate in the new senate term(if he get reelected). This way, if he does get removed he is gone for good and cant take a 3rd term. If they do it too soon, they run the risk of removing him only to have him back in 2020.
My congressman just responded to my letter demanding that the House begin an impeachment inquiry. My head is spinning from his spin. It was a very lengthy letter stating that ConDon “has carried out fundamental attacks on the rule of law and the system of governance established by the United States Constitution,” citing the Mueller report and how Congress should consider levying fines against and imprisoning incalcitrant witnesses who obstruct justice. He then got into the impeachment issue (which was the sole point of my letter). He stated that impeachment should be carried out in a “methodical and fact-based manner” – here comes the spin -- adding that during Watergate, it took two and a half years after the initial break in and five months after the Special Prosecutor indicted seven members of the Nixon Administration for the Judiciary Committee to vote on articles of impeachment against Nixon. Four paragraphs later, he ends with this:
“That is the task before us - which becomes more pressing by the day - to carry out an investigation into this President that is so compelling and so overwhelming that Congress is able to reassert its prerogative and rightfully condemn and punish Presidential actions that are in violation of the law and Constitution.”
So in other words – it’s NOT compelling or overwhelming enough for him? Is he friggin serious?!? I think I should ask him that in another letter.
Thanks for letting me rant a bit. Too bad I’m not a drinking woman.
I had one of the network news stations on today and found something interesting. They were using polling data showing how in favor/ opposed the country was regarding impeaching the president and compared it to polls regarding Bill Clinton around the same time in the process for him and how the country felt about impeachment then. They were actually VERY similar and NOT in flavor of impeachment.
HOWEVER, and this just boggles the mind, the data regarding the public's opinion on impeaching Trump was an ENTIRE month old. End of April data. GOOD GRIEF!! That is an eternity right now.
So, if that is the most recent data being offered, that might also play a factor on why they are not moving on impeachment yet. New data may show changed perceptions and should then make Pelosi more inclined to start the process. The country as a whole did not want to impeach Clinton even though they felt he broke the law per that old data. I don't think she wants a repeat of that situation.
Another thing to consider, just how is this data collected now compared to back in Clinton's time? The younger generation doesn't really use land lines and I don't often get polling calls on my cell phone. When I get them, usually around an election, it is usually on my land line.
I don't want him impeached so much as I want him wounded (politically). Death by a thousand cuts. An inquiry that, as MAS 1581 says, lasts a long time. Pelosi is a terrible spokesperson (as are most dems), but I do trust her. I think she's waiting for the financial stuff, from Deutsche Bank, and perhaps for some of the NY state investigations to bear fruit. Starting an inquiry too quickly and they'll be calls to wrap it up already. I think the best strategy is to keep it in the headlines as long as possible.
Lynn, youre completely correct. I understand everyones rush to get him out of there, and I do agree that quicker is definitely better. The problem is that an impeachment is not a winnable trial right now. To impeach with today's information is suicide. The senate GOP has their heads superglued to Trumps ass so tight they can see smooch biggest hemorrhoid(Mcconnell). For impeachment to pay off, you have to have enough public support that you cant lose the 2020 election, or have enough GOP support to get him removed. If you dont have at least one of those things, Trump gets off, fuels his base and garners a few swing voters, gets a great turnout, and wins(with more Russian help of course), while the Dems lose a few swing voters, and a few of their own go independant because of disillusion that the party couldnt get rid of Trump.
There is too much damning info close to release to make any move right now. Get as much of that info public as you can and try to get an overwhelming consensus of public support. Then let Dorito Supreme keep playing his tariff game and destroy everyones 401k while draining their wallet as well. His base will be forced to choose which they hate more-brown people or losing what little money they have left. Once you evict the vermin from the trailer park because they cant afford the rent, they will be scurrying to just survive and wont be able to go vote because they cant afford to(isnt it ironoc....dont ya think?)
That is when you impeach his ass and walk him out of the white house in cuffs.
Jeanne, seeing that Democracy will persevere and triumph, what do you see in the meantime? Will we see something big happen soon?
If they can get the financials soon then it will be worth the wait.
But—
1. FOX drowns out each publicized offense when they come in bits and pieces.
In a battle. An opponent can knock down each attack when they come bit by bit. That is how he has survived so far in spite of repeated crimes— molesting women, using campaign funds to hush up sexcapades, using a foundation for personal business, scheistering students with a spurious university, using his presidency to further his businesses, and repeated obstruction of justice.
An impeachment process will lay out the seriousness of his impeachable offenses all at once.
I think that many Americans don’t have a problem with many of the crimes he has committed because they take their cue from the GOP pundits as to how serious those crimes are. And the pundits knock them down one by one. Inch by inch the GOP erodes democracy until one day people wake up and it is gone.
Since people don’t read more than sound bites, they haven’t read how incessantly he obstructed justice. But it’s laid out in breathtaking blow by blow chronology in the mueller report.
Also Mueller’s statement (and Amash’s Town Meeting explanation) about why obstruction of justice is such serious crime, will be repeated over and over again during the impeachment. The hearing will show— Wake up, America, this man is stomping on your democracy!
2. I also feel there are moments of opportunity to get him that come and go.
This is such a moment because people were waiting for Mueller to speak. His speech was an apex of public attention. If they wait too long the tsunami of energy against him will dissipate and people will yawn when they try to resurrect a case against him.
I pray I’m wrong that the moment is now, since I see they are waiting and I agree that the financials could be critical. But I feel the time is now or very soon.
3. I don’t know if the Deutche Bank records will be enough although my cards say they will show interrelationships and possible money laundering. However Deutche Bank would do its best to cover the money laundering.
4. Finally when one of you mentioned the advantage of impeachment stretching into a second term I remembered my reading of his presidency into November 2020 where I thought he might have won the presidency but because of a possible blue wave in the Senate, he was loathe to continue. I can’t say for sure if there will be a blue wave, but I felt Trump scared about it in Nov 2020.
5. I know this post is too long but I also want to point out that there are certain conditions that analytical predictors have found can win a presidency and if they continue to be correct then so far Trump is winning. I wouldn’t care so much about their predictions except that I haven’t had a clear vision of a blue win for 2020 but I don’t feel it’s determined yet. At this point, if the analysts are correct, we need a major economic crash, a serious scandal, or a third candidate to split the vote to get voters to turn against an incumbent. If the details that emerge from impeachment can show the public the truth about this man, that would provide the scandal.
Enkasongwriter, good question but please open it in a new topic. Thanks!
I agree with you on most of that, Jeanne, but there isnt anything that the GOP hasnt already dismissed. Something new needs to come out and people need to be directly affected. Hes been shown to be a serial sexual assaulter, yet still got a huge portion of the female vote. Hes shown to be a draft dodger, yet has the veteran vote. Hes claimed to be one of the richest men in the world, yet still has support of the lower class. I can continue but you get the point. Farmers are starting to turn on him because the trade war is actually affecting them. Automaker are next with the Mexico tariffs. Americans, en masse, dont read Mueller reports and barely get past the headline in a news article. In the age of instant gratification, noone takes time to fully ingest all the facts-they just want one liners. Even in an impeachment hearing, no one will watch it. No one will read a transcript. No one will take in the facts. They will all just listen to whatever television media source they already watch and nothing said there will chance their opinion.
My mom always would tell me "revenge is easy. Just give them enough rope and let them hang themselves." This is the logic we need to use with Trump. He will isolate every one of his supporters in time. Let that happen and there is no chance he survives, even with his mob of cronies and Russia.
I agree MAS1581 and I can't say that I'm not one of those that doesn't read everything. I think we are all so inundated with information whether it is true or not that we grow tired of all the reteric. I try to be selective inwhat I read and I don't watch TV news or news shows at all anymore. It's no longer about facts it's about who can jdig the most dirt and who can yell the loudest.
I believe the House committee is waiting for more information and I believe it will be financial. One theory (yes I know it's only a theory) is that SCOTUS judge Kennedy was paid or threatened to retire do to something that his son who works for Deuscha (?) bank did. Possibly money laudering. If that would prove the case that is striaght out bribery and extorsion. One can only hope. However I do believe it is fiancials that will bring about the downfall of the moron. Can you just imagine if he does run what the campaign will be like in 2020! His biker friends have already threatened Nancy Pelosi if she brings impeachment charges. I believe if Nancy has what she needs, and she will get it, threats aren't going to stop her.
What I think is hurting the Dems more is the refusal to respond to supeonas. You can vote to hold someone in contempt but what action can be taken. Barr laughed at Pelosi and made fun of being held in contempt. I don't know what action can be taken. Does anyone know what procedures are in place to deal with this? I know there is a sargent of arms in the House and a cell in the basememnt of the capitol but is there any other means of punishment? Fines sound good but they can be laughed at too. What about Federal Marshalls, do they have any jurisdiction? If it were me personally I would just have to haul off and bitch slap the arrogant SOB. But that's just me! ANy ideas?
Oh well the moron and his moronets head to UK today. In an interview the moron said he thouht Meghan was nasty for not voting for him. That should sit really well with the Royals. So now we get to sit back and watch the $h!t show and the circus clowns do London!
Alright, here's a spin on things...Nostradamus said *to some interpretation* that Trump would win another 4 years. Alright, that blows. BUT. What if we need 8 years of complete and total chaos for both parties and the United states as a whole, to finally lay down the weapons and start fresh? I mean, a majority of you guys see a new wave of hope coming after some sort of turmoil. Going back to the land, becoming more aware of one another...these things *historically* always happen after a tribulation of sorts. Maybe trump is the tribulation. Maybe he does have to be reelected so that we can finally transition to oneness. What I'm trying to say, is that while I'd love for trump to be impeached and a purge of political arena to take place, I wonder if this is our moment to sit tight, let the cards fall, continue to stay kind and loving, fine tune our self sufficiency skills and just prepare for the time when we are suppose to be the helpers. Afterall, I think that's why we're all here in the first place. To be helpers. Thoughts?
Perriwinkle,
You've made some very insightful points. Although it makes me sick to think about it, that could very well be. I have occasionally sensed some of the same things about Trump’s reelection, but I’ve talked myself out of it. But if what you say is true, then why do we even think it’s necessary for Pelosi to be so overly cautious regarding an impeachment inquiry? More importantly, the 2018 election was as much about holding T accountable, as it was about healthcare, etc. Also, the large majority of Dems, and more and more Independents, are in support of it.
No matter what the final outcome is in the 2020 Presidential election, I still believe that Pelosi et al. needs to do what she and House were voted in to do. I just heard Clyburn speak in measured tones, basically supporting Pelosi’s approach. He also has this pie-in-the sky idea that if we can just change the views of McTurtle’s KY constituents, then he should be more cooperative with the Democrats regarding an inquiry/investigation. Is he kidding? And except for Warren, I have yet to hear any Dem speak as clearly as Amash about the Mueller report and the need for an inquiry.
Those Dems in office who want to methodically go slow often cite how long it took for Nixon to leave office. They also seem to believe that, similar to Watergate, as more of the truth comes out, the Reps will ultimately come around. I think those Dems are deluded. This is not Watergate, and we are not living in normal times. This is much worse. And at some point, it will be too late. I clearly see a scenario of ConDon being reelected. I’m not sure if it’s because it’s meant to be, or it’s because of the Dems’ timid action regarding the impeachment inquiry, or just my own fears coming into play. But I see it clearly.
I agree, Yogagirl, I've thought from day one that it would be the money that would bring this criminal enterprise down.
I've been reviewing predictions for the June/July/August time frame and there are a lot that predict the end of Trump.
I think that whatever's in the Flynn recordings that the fascist walrus refuses to release directly incriminates Twitler selling out America for profit.
I think I’m feeling especially pessimistic today about the whole situation. I am frustrated by the slow walk that the dems are taking on holding lawless people to account. Then I get even more frustrated that I am letting the situation affect me! I understand that things need to be done a certain way to get the desired results, but it is frustrating to watch people breaking the law every day and there not to be consequences. I read an article by a professor who has accurately predicted 9 presidential races. He is of the opinion that if the dems don’t start impeachment hearings soon, they won’t have a chance of defeating the current pres. He uses several metrics to make his predictions and it made sense to me. The article:
In spite of my mood today, I won’t give up. I will take a short break and then start again to think of ways to help democracy and justice to get back on track.
Have a good weekend!