I have several friends with college age kids, including rising freshmen. It's a nightmare if they weren't attending the state schools here in CA (which are closed til at least end of January for remote learning only).
What's going on in CA? Well, many students who would have gone to a UC or CSU have withdrawn to enroll in community colleges at home - it costs 70% less that way, curricula at freshman/sophomore levels is very similar, and they can automatic transfer acceptance at the end of the 2 years. No reason to spend money on the higher tuition. As a result, community college courses are slammed - I have friends who teach in our CC district, both told me that Fall classes are jam packed and waiting lists are over capacity.
As for private universities, well, as I was discussing with one friend recently - Why pay for an Ivy league year if it's going to be online? Or for any private college? Or an expensive out of state college? The main reason for going to the higher end schools is to network - to meet peers you'll stay in contact with as you get your careers up and running. If everyone is online in mom's basement, that's not really happening, and these schools are charging >$65k plus per year, and NONE of them are offering any type of discount, including Harvard - which has a multi-billion dollar endowment they could put to good use.
Out of staters have the biggest conundrum if they attend college in a state where public schools will be open for Fall. U Miami is an example - they want all the kids to come back at beginning of August, no Fall break, and then home by Thanksgiving. That's all well and good, but you can't expect college kids to be on lockdown - they're going to party and socialize, they're all crowded into dorms or small apartments. And then what? They'll bring disease home with them, just like with a regular flu season (which tends to get rolling as soon as the end of year holidays do).
And then I have 1 or 2 friends whose rising freshman have decided to do a gap year. I don't blame them, I would probably do the same. As I mentioned before, going to college, whether away or local, is as much about social aspects as educational. How many of us have lifelong friends we know from college? I know I do, I value them greatly. I have one friend whose rising junior is looking into taking a gap year as well (this kid is high risk despite their youth) - a leave of absence, but it's not going well, the college is telling them they'll consider it a drop out if they don't pay the tuition in full up front, regardless of whether they register for (online in this case) classes or not.
Another issue is foreign students, which here in CA is significant because too many of our UC slots go to foreign students rather than A+ in state students. These foreign students are not going to be able to travel here probably, and who knows if they are able to do online learning where their home base is.
I think the colleges are starting to get desperate. They see they stand to lose billions over this next year. Many have waived SAT and ACT admissions tests. That's not enough. Many of the private institutions do have those big endowments - I don't see why they can't use them for the benefit of their students in this time of crisis. Many of these schools are insisting not only on full tuition, but are demanding their housing fees as well, even though in some cases it's 100% remote for Fall. And of the schools that will be open for Fall, I haven't heard of any that will provide regular testing, and as important - contact tracing.
And as someone who lives in a city with 3 very large universities (USD, SDSU, UCSD), I don't want anyone coming back here til the crisis has passed (so I'm glad Fall is off for now).
I also think it's ridiculous that the colleges are digging in their heels regarding sabbaticals and leaves of absence. I wonder how many young people are going to walk away from higher education altogether because of all of this.
I can really relate to what you have written. I know I have mentioned this many times before. My youngest is a senior this year in college and we really don't know how this will translate for her as she is a music major. She is supposed to have some of her courses on line except some which can't be online. That would include ensembles. Some ensembles should be ok in person like a percussion ensemble. You can wear a mask. But a band or orchestra ensemble???? I don't see how that will work. Her college has instituted a masks required when on campus rule, even for the parking lot. So, again, that is great but what about music majors and theatre kids?
Found out from Gov. Cuomo that five regions, likely upstate regions, will be able to start phase four of reopening. Given the situation, NYC can start phase three a week or two from now the earliest.
I meant to add to my post above:
In terms of admissions, the schools are NOT giving anyone deferred admissions - if you don't take an offered spot (and start paying fees and tuitions), you lose it and have to reapply.
Very unkind and greedy.
I can really relate to what you have written. I know I have mentioned this many times before. My youngest is a senior this year in college and we really don't know how this will translate for her as she is a music major. She is supposed to have some of her courses on line except some which can't be online. That would include ensembles. Some ensembles should be ok in person like a percussion ensemble. You can wear a mask. But a band or orchestra ensemble???? I don't see how that will work. Her college has instituted a masks required when on campus rule, even for the parking lot. So, again, that is great but what about music majors and theatre kids?
Lovendures, my daughter is a rising sophomore performance major at a well-known music school--out of state for us--and I'm very worried about exactly this. She plays the flute, which is the *worst* instrument in terms of air flow going into the room and all over--what about her private lessons? What about orchestra? My own orchestra doesn't even know how we're going to do concerts in the fall so it's no wonder that we haven't heard from the university. We don't feel she can take a gap year because it's all about the private lesson professor and you don't just drop in and drop out of a studio.
I hope things go well for your daughter; I'm sure she has a senior recital in the mix as well. It's a hard time to be a musician.
@Isabelle I want to support you and tell you that I feel that you are 100% right. Not only can colleges not protect kids, but the logistics of good procedures seem impossible to implement, particularly if college kids are residing on campus.
My recent experience (in Australia) illustrates why. I have a primary school aged child. His primary school opened up again 3 weeks ago with stringent physical distancing, and hand and school sanitising measures. After the first 2 weeks he came home with cold/flu symptoms. The result was that our entire household had to go and get tested for Covid-19. His class emptied out because almost all other families with kids who got symptoms had to do the same. We got a test and then had to quarantine ourselves until we had test results (3-7 days). So far that there has been no Covid-19 at his school. but this is only a matter of time. I have no issue with the recommended protocols, but I cannot for the life of me see how to implement this in a college. Will college students stay home if they have the mildest of flu symptoms? If they do, will they be able to isolate themselves immediately? Will they have good access to tests? If their test is positive, what then? Is the testing, healthcare and quarantine infrastructure there?
Australia has incredibly low Coronavirus case numbers and a good testing infrastructure and it is still very difficult. I think any university that won't offer a fully remote option or deferment until there is a proper vaccine or treatment is a red flag. I know that this threatens their liability, but @Laura-f is exactly right. This requires a joint college sector/government approach.
I don't know why I hadn't thought of cold symptoms yet for back to school issues. I mean, people will still get colds (though I would hope with all the mask wearing there will be less transmission). What do you do with children having cold symptoms. Ugh. By the way, you look to young to have a primary aged child. Just saying.
I feel for you. Yes, a flute player and brass players would have difficulty playing in a group setting. Pretty much crickets on how ensembles will be going right now at her University. I would thing private flute lessons could continue over a Zoom like platform. My daughter needed to actually be at school in a rehearsal room for her private Zoom lessons last semester even when they moved classes to online as she doesn't own a marimba, vibraphone, or timpani. (Well, what college student would right?). Good luck to your flute player for this year.
HA!! A joint college/government plan!! Even if you hadn't mentioned Australia I would have known that you were not in the US.
The colleges here, even the public ones, are for profit and greedy. Financial aid is non-existent except for a few near, but not at or below the poverty level. The banking industry sells loans to students and very adjustable and high inflation rates - essentially an indefinite term of debtors' prison,but generally decades to pay back and no excuses, not even death.
And as for our government, well...
We are a failed democracy being run by a narcissistic sociopath (aka Smallhands McDouchebag) who is backed by the oligarchy with the help of theocratic capitalists. There are over 122,000 people dead of COVID as of today in the US. Our numbers are climbing back up - we never made it out of the first wave. The goal of those in power is to kill as many of us as they can without using valuable resources like bullets. They want everyone dead or in jail or enslaved and unable to vote in November.
The banks and the schools are completely beholden to the oligarchy. Teaming up would mean what's happening - schools are reopening for Fall semester, way too soon.
Please - send in the UN Forces!
And to add a note to what I said before: talked to a friend whose daughter is on her college's Women's Wrestling Team. They are going back to school in Oregon in person, and wrestling activities are to be resumed as if nothing has happened. WTF? I mean, I could see tennis, golf, even ping pong - but wrestling???? What could possibly go wrong? ?
@lovendures thank you ? . In practice it has meant that we have probably had more sick days than school days since school has reopened! You can't distinguish a cold from the Coronavirus in the early stages (wring hands). It is winter though so we are in the middle of our cold and flu season.
@Laura-f - it is such a great injustice in the US. I had such high hopes for Bernie Sanders!
In Australia we have gone from virtually free tertiary education between 1974 and 1989 to a hybrid government subsidy/personal debt system. Our student debt is interest free, but indexed to inflation and paid through our tax system. Australians graduate with up to six figures of debt. Foreign students pay much higher fees. But even so our universities are struggling. Our government is not offering nearly enough support to universities.
Despite what most neo-liberals say, the truth is that not everything can thrive when it is run "for maximum profit". We suffer as a community.
I hope that we will all be able to turn this ship around.