The CDC Director has made the decision on boosters.
not sure if the picture is showing or why I’m having trouble linking
@tybin and community, when I think about the CDC making policy decisions, I know that they are juggling many priorities and uncertainties. Then we have to weigh our own knowledge and all the data thrown at us before we can decide what we will do.
I got the third shot as soon as I was eligible. I am glad I did. I've always been cautious about pharmaceuticals but I knew I needed this shot.
We live in an Information Age, and we have more information on Covid and the vaccine than we've ever had about any drug, except for long term impacts. But we still can't be absolutely certain about anything. My Public Health studies taught me that it's all about risk factors, i.e., likelihood of risk; never absolutes. At the end of the day, we find some sources we trust, and then we decide our own level of risk, and we choose.
I see so many people confused, especially in red states or those watching Fox News or reading right wing Facebook feeds. It's like trying to study data while someone is throwing tons of mud on the page.
Even with good sources, i.e., media I can trust, there is still confusion. I am actually more comfortable reading a thorough analysis by the New York Times than asking most doctors. Why? Because good reporters have to be thorough and consult with a range of experts. However, even the NYTimes and so many other mainstream newspapers have missed the boat some times, because of bias in the corporate news, and often done so intentionally, because of their loyalties.
So in the end, I have to finally go to my body, the great well of wisdom, and ask it to help me know.
Did I say anything just now? I needed to post something to be sure the site was working because I've been doing a bunch of site maintenance without my developer. And you do not want me doing site maintenance without a developer. Ha Ha. Hoping it works and hoping I said something here worth reading. @lovendures @deetoo @bluebelle
@jeanne-mayell, my husband and I will be getting the booster. Right now we have a couple of medical tests scheduled, but plan on receiving the shots soon afterwards.
@jeanne-mayell Thanks for tagging me, Jeanne. I’ve been watching this whole Covid booster decision play out over the past month, and I must say the CDC is really terrible at their messaging. At first I blamed the former guy and his inept administration for all the CDC foul ups. Let’s face it, the former guy was trying to control everything the CDC presented to the public, but now that we have a new administration, the CDC is still bumbling their way through the pandemic. First they were going to approve everyone for a booster eight months after the second dose starting the week of September 20. Then there were a flurry of reports that the time frame would be changed to six months after the second dose. Then we had the FDA meeting last week and the CDC meeting this week and all the guidelines change again. Now all people over 65, health care workers and people working in certain fields can get the third dose. The pharmacies still don’t have their online scheduling set up for these appointments, but supposedly, if you fit into these criteria, you can get a shot today. The CDC is gradually getting the message out, but FFS, my late mother could have organized this much better. Thank you for listening to my rant.
Nevertheless, we are getting our Pfizer boosters next weekend.
@jeanne-mayell whew I am not sure if I have a coherent or helpful thought about truth, though I did find this article in Psychology Today of all places and find it a starting point for me to ponder. And the quote in the last paragraph: Finally, truth is constructive and adaptive, while lies are destructive and self-defeating.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201808/what-is-truth
Well, the whole back and forth is rather confusing between the FDA and CDC. Also, they used Israel as model but Israel had their booster population start at 60 and yet the U.S. chooses 65? If Israel is the go to...why not 60? Did I miss something there??
I would like to get a 3rd shot after my 6 month time frame which isn't until later October. I THINK I am eligible under "health conditions"...but my condition has been included and excluded many times through this process. Would love to know what proof I will need to provide for the third shot and if it is an individual state regulated process on requiring proof you are eligible.
I absolutely agree that those who work closely with people, especially in "no mask mandated" states should be able to get a 3rd booster. We are already loosing people in the work force who are health care workers and teachers who are vaccinated but still afraid for their health. They are totally stressed. We need to allow them to choose what they wish to do when data shows that Pfizer is not as long lasting as Moderna. If J& J also shows a safe boost that is also important.
@jeanne-mayell It's interesting you bring this up. The most recent issue of MIT's Technology Review is dedicated to exploring the science of the brain and the mind. One article concerns the way our brains use what our senses perceive in order to create our sense of reality. One quote from a scientist really stuck with me. He basically says that our perception is really a series of hallucinations constructed by our brain and that when enough of us all agree on the hallucination then that is what we call truth.
I find that fascinating because it so closely describes what's going on in society today with everyone constantly fighting over what is true. Subgroups of society are basically creating their own truth/reality based on what information they allow themselves to receive.
It also calls to mind the spiritual concept of manifestation or that we can change our own reality by changing what we focus on.
I get the paper version of the magazine but I found a link to the online article (behind a paywall) here:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/08/25/1032121/brains-controlled-hallucination/
@jeanne-mayell I have to say it’s intriguing that you posed this question today bc I’ve been grappling about the subject of truth in regard to the CDCs latest back and forth and all the vaccines (in addition to other truths) I’m getting this yr into next. While I understand the volatility of science and experimentation etc., I also empathize w the frustration and angst that these mixed messages create. Frustrating and frightening are understatements.
My husband Paul saw his oncologist recently and she had little info about the Covid booster and believes they’re nowhere near having one ready. We didn’t ask for further info. I don’t remember if she said anything about a third vaccine for him so I’ll assume it wasn’t discussed. He has a check up w his primary soon and plans on discussing it then.
I’m waiting bc we both just got our first shingles vaccine last week, will get our flu shots in Oct and then the second shingles vaccine in early December. Paul wants to wait til January but I told him I feel strongly that we may have to get our third vaccine in January. I hope our bodies adapt! Ugh
Back to truth—I usually rely on my sister, phd virologist at Nci/nih. She’s reported to dr fauci in the past. She explains things as good scientists do—pragmatically and factually. If she doesn’t know or it’s not an area of expertise, she says so. She’s not embarrassed to say she doesn’t know bc as with all new vaccines, they’re still discovering and uncovering. I haven’t spoken to her about the boosters and third vaccine option. Bc Paul and I are able to stay away from the fray, we don’t have urgency at this time.
Honestly, I’ve been tuning into my inner consciousness and asking my guides for help in navigating the uncertainty. Thus far, I feel calm and reassured about waiting. This doesn’t help Lovendures’ daughter and others who are in harm’s way. I’ll reach out to Rosemarie and ask her for her input and report back to the Forum.
Stay well, Everyone. Keep your angels close ??
@jeanne-mayell Part of the difficulty in getting people to accept "truth" as far as COVID, etc. goes is that scientific truth is always evolving. We work, we sort the good data from the bad, always trying to refine our knowledge to become more purely "true". Science is all about "models"--- representations of the ultimate divine Truth. Some are better representations than others (eg Bohr atom vs. the quantum atom). But pure Truth--- something Not a model or an approximation-- is not something that can be put into words and communicated, human to human, or at least so it seems to me. And humans can probably cannot comprehend ultimate Truth in our current form and dimension.
A lot of people don't get this. If the models and hypotheses don't turn out to be the Law of the Universe, these people decide that the whole scientific process is a bunch of untrustworthy BS. They'll say, "the CDC is flip-flopping!!" Well yeah!. If the CDC gets more and better information they will alter their recommendations, just like a detective will change his strategy if he finds new clues.
Maybe it's just that deep down, a lot of people don't like to think and just want someone to tell them what to believe once and for all so their minds can happily vegetate. Not-knowing is a condition too scary for some to accept. Others find it a challenge.
Well, the whole back and forth is rather confusing between the FDA and CDC. Also, they used Israel as model but Israel had their booster population start at 60 and yet the U.S. chooses 65? If Israel is the go to...why not 60? Did I miss something there??
The agencies don't know everything. They're confused too. The best they can do is cobble together results of many different studies and data and try to make a coherent picture of it. And this is not a controlled, closed-system laboratory experiment. The standard scientific method says to change only one variable at a time when you're doing an experiment --- because if you change more than one variable you won't know which of them is the one causing a change in your results.
But the number of variables involved in a real-world study of humans going about their messy lives with a huge range of health situations, living conditions, ages, genders, potential exposures to the virus, access to COVID tests is huge---- it boggles the mind. Which variable might be more important? How to weight the data? Which dataset is most meaningful? The CDC and FDA scientists can read the same reports and come to different conclusions because the data are so frustratingly *fuzzy*. So much slop in the numbers, so much room for error.
And then there's the practical side when it comes to deciding specifically on who gets boosters. Some might favor holding back some vaccine in case it is needed elsewhere, or later. Others might figure that's unnecessary and we should just go for it.
I keep thinking about the Star Trek: The Voyage Home, where Spock does not have all the information he needs to precisely plot a course back to the future, and is taken aback when Scotty suggests he take his "Best Guess". That's what we're seeing--- the "best guesses", and that's the way science works most of the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBxcalnSzIk
Well, I’m betting her morning work rush and bc she just doesn’t know yet, here’s my sister’s brief response: “I’ve not heard that Moderna is recommended yet—evidently the immunity is lasting longer than Pfizer.” (Paul and I both had Moderna)
@jeanne-mayell While no medical practice is one size fits all ... one has to take in to account the probabilities and likely outcomes when deciding to get/ take any vaccine or medication. The Covid-19 vaccines (3) have drastically reduced the severity and morbidity for most people.
Having had family members get covid, one of whom died from it even though vaccinated (86), one who was very very ill with it even tho young (33) a former boss who got (vaccinated and felt really bad for one day then it was like a mild cold (53) two friends who died from it before vaccines were available ( 47) ( 71) and finding out I probably had it last February 2020 and got J & J vaccine April 7th (antibody test showed both types of antibodies) I know that if it is offered I will take another J & J vaccine.
If one doesn't trust the mRNA vaccines (being developed and tested for over 20 years now - so not really new) one can take the J & J based on modified adenovirus , a nonreplicating viral vector vaccine, a method with decades of research behind it and is quite effective at preventing severe outcomes.
The CDC , like any governmental agency under the former president, was undermined and politicized. The virus itself and the vaccines were politicized and made political weapons... and media played a big part in constantly giving them all the headlines and overemphasizing the side effects making it harder for people to get the truth and weigh in factual percentages and risks. We have now surpassed the 1918 Flu Pandemic in deaths.
I can not tell anyone what they should do with their own bodies.... I can say? Do your homework, do the research, the internet is a great resource to look up information...and when you read it? Please do consider the sources!!! Places like John Hopkins, and other great teaching hospitals,National Institute of Health as well https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov are good resources.
Then? decide what is right for you and yours, with a willingness to change as more information becomes available. Covid-19 was definitely a new learning curve for many.
ASU just completed a study published Friday in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s weekly repot regarding the effectiveness of wearing masks in a school setting.
Arizona State University researchers analyzed data from July 15 to Aug. 31 provided by Maricopa and Pima county public health departments. They also found that the earlier a district implemented a mask requirement, the less likely it was to have an outbreak.
Not surprisingly, the schools which implemented a mask mandate were 3.5 times less likely to have an outbreak than schools which didn't require masks.
Ninety-two percent of schools with mask mandates in place when the school year started had no outbreaks during the nearly seven weeks of the study, according to a report published Friday.
An outbreak is defined as two or more confirmed COVID-19 cases at the same school within a 14-day period.
Using this study criteria, there has not been an outbreak-free week at my daughter's school this year. She went back to work in early August.
@lovendures It's always good to get more studies, so this is welcomed, and of course people need to have their own studies in this day of fake claims. And, that said, it's been shown repeatedly in studies that masks make all the difference. So now they have no excuse not to mandate masks.
This is THE BEST story about a first grade student who wore his mask for picture day. Seriously! The best story!!! I even love it without the ending but the ending is the cherry on top.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/25/us/coronavirus-mask-school-picture-trnd/index.html
@lovendures Oh I just loved that story. I didn't get it at first, which is typical of me, and then when I read through it and it hit me what this sweet little boy had done, I just wanted to hug him. There is so much sweetness in this world. We just need to keep feeding it to each other so we realize how beautiful this world is, even with its issues.
...our perception is really a series of hallucinations constructed by our brain and that when enough of us all agree on the hallucination then that is what we call truth.
Frank, your post is going in the hall of fame. Thank you.
And all of you helped me sort out what I was pondering yesterday. Thank you!
@earthangel, @lovendures @donna @journeywithme2 @marigold and @ana.
I noticed that right after Arizona republicans certified the vote for Biden, adding that Biden actually got even more votes than they had originally counted, the anti-Christ who used to be in the WH, has doubled down and is pushing the other states to do recounts. In Texas the reactionary leadership is eager to capitulate. Years ago when I did my own timeline reading of the long term, I'd seen a guru in Texas or somewhere in the south central who was able to gain a huge following because of people's fear about climate change. That article is posted somewhere on this site, although it was such a scary vision. Now I realize it fits Mr. T to a T.
@Frank, you wrote Subgroups of society are basically creating their own truth/reality based on what information they allow themselves to receive.
They allow themselves to receive the information that comes from people they most want to believe.
I was inspired by the little boy and the mask story, thank you for posting it, Lovendures.
- For those who think they might be eligible, Walgreen's pharmacies gives people who are interested in booster, a sheet on which one checks yes or no as to whether they qualify. At the bottom of the sheet, Walgreens reports that they will ask no questions. One could use this information judiciously.
- I got a third Pfizer shot. My reaction was much milder than shot #2. A few body aches, mild intermittent headaches, a few chills but I still functioned for the day, unlike after #2.
- A relative of mine is the head of health services at an academic institution and she reports seeing a number of breakthrough COVID infections. The good news is that those infected have close relationships, like dating or rooming with the person who infected them. This is anecdotal, but in a population of ~3,000 unmasked close contact is responsible for many break through infections rather than casual encounters in public.
- I have heard stories of people getting tested for antibodies after two vaccinations, and finding that they have none. I am not referring to those with compromised immune systems.
Clearly caution continues to be warranted but as stated by others, masks and vaccinations provide a large margin of safety.
@raincloud I know someone who has had 3 Pfizer vaccines and still tests negative for antibodies. He definitely falls under the immunocompromised category though. His doctors tell him to live as though he is unvaccinated.