But we do "see" how they came to commit those acts. We may even feel sympathy for them in the way
Nope. Not a chance. Not for me, anyway. Those who have hurt me in the past do not have and will never again have any place in my life. As far as I am concerned, they do not exist.
Same here. In the past I felt like I was guilted into forgiving people who harmed me - by relatives, therapists, etc. And so I did. The harm continued. So I UNforgave them, including the ones who had died in the meantime.
My current belief is: Many toxic behaviors may not entirely be the fault of the perpetrator, however if you are honest and tell them the harm they are causing and they do nothing to change, that is unforgivable.
I agree with Jeanne, forgiveness is an inner work. When I was younger, I often became resentful and jealous toward the people who wronged me when good things happened to them. I hated the feelings and asked my psychologist how I could change that. She said it beautifully... she said once I have achieved a sense of well-being, I will no longer feel that way. So, for the next two decades, I work on my own well-being and find myself in peace. It does not mean I forget. Forgiveness comes from knowing those people can no longer hurt me and they have no power over me. When I think of them, I have no negative emotions, which is a great place to be. I highly recommend it.
I think there are all good answers and very valid points of view here.
I think the best way for me to summarise it, is to say that you have to do what feels right for you.
I don't think there is any one solution that fits all.
I think life is full of lessons. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes light, sometimes dark, sometimes violent, sometimes love, sometimes rich, sometimes poor.
We are all learning, including the people hurting others - their lesson might be to learn from you not to be that way again to other people.
I don’t know if my story helps at all but I grew up with parents who didn’t see me and see the world through a different lens’ but bottom line I didn’t feel loved or seen for who I am and didn’t learn my value. I then married an abusive man, had kids w him and had enough when they were one and 4. He had had a rough childhood and it was very easy to see how he came to be the way he was. When I left I was free and I did not blame him at all, I was able to start a new life and cut off the weight. I was also able to see that the obstacles in my life like my parents and my ex and opportunities for learning I choose before this incarnation to help me learn the lesson of valuing myself and learning to be vulnerable. I am grateful to have seen that these difficulties were lessons on my path and not anyone actually harming me. Forgiveness is not hard when you don’t take it all too seriously and when you trust God without doubt. A lot of this is just about fear and when I was ready to trust God completely fear stopped being an issue.
The anger and negativity of holding a grudge (i.e. not forgiving) to me is like drinking poison and expecting that to have an effect on the person I haven't forgiven. It doesn't hurt them, it is self harming. It took me a long time to realize this.
I also agree with Jeanne, learning why I was treated in a way that requires forgiveness was helpful for a number of reasons. Hurt people turn around and hurt others. They lash out.
Many of my family have hurt me, but in digging into why has taught me to understand why they do it. Understanding it doesn't make what they have done (and still do) right. Understanding it helps me deal with the aftermath. It makes me know when I'm wasting my time and energy trying to teach those who cannot learn. It helps me to rid myself of the aftereffects of their abuses. It helps me to avoid becoming like them. I can see that there are narcissists in the family, why they became that way, and that they cannot be cured. That doesn't make their behavior right, but I now understand that it's about them hating themselves more than they hate me. I can understand that I have to cut contact when necessary, and how to do it. I can feel pity for them, realizing that it must be awful to dislike yourself so much. Pity and condoning are very different. By looking into the why's of it all, I can also teach others who find themselves in similar situations.
I have a sister whom I believe has histrionic personality disorder (my diagnosis, not a professionals). She's the one whom I've mentioned who told everyone in the family years ago she had a terminal illness, and now that she's outlived that prognosis, has to deal with us knowing she lied. Can you imagine how much you must dislike yourself that you need to go to such extremes to get attention? I could write a book about her twisted and abusive behaviors to all of us in the family (tho I was her favorite target). I no longer feel anger towards her, but pity. I can't imagine how tortured her soul must be, nor do I want to. How she's treated me is her Karma to work out. She craves attention, but she gets none from me. I won't feed her disorder. I can understand my therapist's noting that each of my family, emotionally unhealthy as they were, were doing the best they could. If they could have done better, they would have. If they could have been cured of their emotional disabilities, they would have gotten treatment. Their illnesses are such that they won't believe they are ill, so they can't be treated. I can let their behaviors be their Karma, instead of trying to fix them or punishing them, or carrying their abuses towards me as my burden. I can understand they loved me in their own way, even tho their way wasn't healthy -especially for me. That is what I've gained via forgiveness.
I also look for my role in the abuse. Sometimes there is a fraction of responsibility I need to take and/or correct. For example, having a parent who's a narcissist, and an abusive sibling made me an obvious target for others. I was raised to be the family scapegoat, so others with abusive tendencies would pick up on it. It's why I married a narcissist. It was the dynamic I associated with family. It was what I was used to. Once I figured that out, I have become less likely to bring in more abusive types into my circle. When I still attracted some, again, I dug to find out why. I changed, so this shouldn't have happened again, right? Wrong. I'm now strong, not submissive. Little did I know before the research that I'll still attract them, but for different reasons and 'roles' in their lives. Now I'm the type they want to associate with for appearances’ sake. If I hadn't tried to figure out why, I'd still be in that endless cycle.
Think of all the collective trauma the people of the world have had passed down. Until we all take a look at why, we'll never fix the problem. This is why at this point in time we have so many hate groups showing themselves. I was the family scapegoat because I pointed out double standards, bad behaviors, etc. How dare I? Collectively, we're starting to try and gain equality for all, and for those still carrying trauma and emotional illnesses they've not dealt with, this will push some major buttons, exacerbating situations, forcing others to react. Those of us who are light workers (many are abuse survivors) are older souls. Therefore, we react differently to the abuse and handle our aftermath in ways that are healthier, but not easily comprehended by those who are younger souls. A three-year-old is going to throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way, whereas a teen will argue and eventually sulk or accept that they haven't gotten their way (yes, some, heaven forbid, still act out). Remember, many who are abusers are more likely younger souls who haven't learned as much as the older souls of the world. That's why, as people, we forgive kids with greater ease than we forgive adults who "should know better". We forget that age isn't just about the physical body. Someone who is 100 earth years could still be an infant in soul age, yet it can be very obvious when a youngster is an old soul.
I go back and forth on the ease of forgiveness. I think I land somewhere around where many of you have - forgive but don't always forget. An excellent example of this was an interpersonal conflict between a colleague downstate that played out publically (literally on the front page of several newspapers thanks to her cousin being a journalist for the Detroit News) over a project I once led. I honestly and truthfully was blindsided by the attack and to this day go out of my way to avoid this person (who is thankfully no longer where she was). I'm finally at a place these many years later where I don't even wish to see the karmic payoff for her actions - She simply exists in my memory as a person to avoid and stay away from. I'm not certain I've forgiven her for what she put my family and me through or her intent to end my career completely over grant funds that came to my org instead of hers. I don't wish her ill? And the universe took care of me throughout it - the project still exists, my career continued with just that small speed bump.
But smaller things - I try to let those go as they occur. Life is simply too short sometimes.
Everyone here is very brave for sharing. This is not an easy topic. But it is good to see and discuss all the different perspectives for others to see, as it may also help somebody who is reading.
...Those who have hurt me in the past do not have and will never again have any place in my life. As far as I am concerned, they do not exist.
@tgraf66, I have come to the same place in my own life, that a perpetrator has no place in my life, except they continue to exist in my memory. I cannot erase my memories. I can transform the reaction I had from the hurt by finding meaning from the hurt, so the hurt can become a trigger for something good, like the grit that makes a pearl.
But I cannot get to the point that the person no longer exists for me, except in one way: I can grow past them, i.e., reach a point of peace within myself, and then they no longer bug me. They still exist though, but they don't trouble my mind any more.
Now I'm not saying I've gotten over all my hurts. On days when I'm overworked or rundown, when I feel vulnerable and hurt, I don't feel forgiving. But that forgiveness is under my control. In fact, I can gauge my need for self care, and my self neglect, by how unforgiving I'm feeling towards others.
So those who hurt me in ways that I have overcome don't pop up in my mind anymore. I have no interest in socializing with them too. And I also tend not to run into them or their ilk. So in that way, they no longer exist.
That's because I'm flying in a different airspace now so we don't connect.
But if I fall back in that old airspace of vulnerability, of feeling I'm not smart enough, not attractive enough, not nice enough, not deserving enough, not articulate enough, or just plain not enough, then the perpetrators do pop up in my psyche. And I might actually run into them, or someone who reminds me of them, and I become agitated all over again.
Then there's something else I've noticed over the years. It's not always true, but there is some truth in the old adage:
What we can't forgive, we become.
If we can't come to peace about someone who hurt us, then somehow, some way, our unrest will show up and our ever present id, that animal in our psyche, may try to even the score with them via someone who reminds us of how the original perpetrator made us feel. That's when things get messy.
If we can't come to peace about someone who hurt us, then somehow, some way, our unrest will show up and our ever present id,
I have come to peace about them. They no longer exist to me, therefore they can no longer cause me pain, and I am at peace.